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Visit the other “Dancing with Nazis” Sites:
• Arnold Schwarzenegger
• Brujeria – Killing Whiteys (Americans)
• Rammstein
• The Smiley Face MurdersCONTENTS OF THIS PAGE
•Evan Rachel Wood Dumps Marilyn Manson
•Introduction
•Marilyn Manson and the Church of Satan
•Aleister Crowley, another Important Influence
•Satanic Churches Registered as Official in the US
•Images of Manson’s Apocalypse
•The Sharon Tate Murder
•Eat Me, Drink Me (literally)
•Evan Rachel Wood Displays Nazi/Apocalyptic Message
•Nazi Symbolism used by Marilyn Manson
•The Beautiful People (video)
•Chris Rock Parody (video)
•Relationship to Totalitarian Scientology Cult
•Racial Images
•Rock and Roll Nigger (video)
•The Golden Age of Grotesque (video)
•This is New Shit (video)
•The Occult Roots of Nazism and Mansonism
•Boyd Rice, a Mentor of Marilyn Manson
•Boyd Rice Interview by Top Nazi, Tom Metzger
•Boyd Rice’s “Total War” (video)
•Nikolas Schreck and Radio Werewolf
•Are Goth/Industrial Fans Part of the Satanic Nazi Army?
•Does Manson Throw Destructive Curses from Stage
•The Satanic Bible on Human Sacrifice
•Aleister Crowley on Human Sacrifice
•Anti-Christ Superstar (video)
•Get Your Gun (video)
•The Impact of Violence in the Media (video)
•David Berkowitz, Son of Sam and the Satanic Army (video)
•Lunchbox (lyrics)
•Artists that Promote Crime
•Joy of Satan – Asa Coon (video)
•Marilyn Manson celebrates the Sacrifice of Asa Coon
•Manson Incites his Satanic Nazi Youth to Kill
•The Organ Grinder (video)
•Do Victims have Legal Options?
•Acknowledgements
•Fair Use Notice
•Selected Comments
Evan Rachel Wood Dumps Marilyn Manson
Evan Rachel Wood ditched aging satanist, Marilyn Manson, around the end of October. Wood publically stated that she was still on good terms with the kindly, old gentleman of Satanic Rock. The reason for the split is, apparently, that she just got bored with the more mature satanist. Also, since he is being sued for $20M, his financial prospects probably are not what she may have thought. Apparently, there are limits to what even a contract with the Devil can do for you. Even Satan can not stop you from aging, the flesh from sagging or the sexual vitality from fading. At some point, things just begin to slide downhill. Your fans and mooching friends move on to someone newer with more money. You wind up being a forgotten, flacid, pathetic, bitter, old fart, with no money, no fans, no friends and no young chicks. It happens to all of us, sooner or later. Fly, ERW, fly!
Hottie, Evan Rachel Wood Dumps Marilyn Manson
This website was originally meant to explore Marilyn Manson’s obsession with Nazism. However, one soon learns that Manson’s Nazism is so intertwined with Satanism that it is not really separable. This website documents some of the Satanic Nazi symbolism that the group uses and to put it in its proper context, so that people understand better how the allusions to Satanism and Nazism are being made and used. M. Manson often says that people do not understand what he is doing. Let us, for once take him seriously and try to understand what he means. It is a terrible thing when (satanic) “Genius” is not recognized for what it is. It must also be terribly frustrating for such a “genius” like M. Manson, who barely finished high school, to be so ambitious as to announce the onset of the Apocalypse and most people do not even notice.
The T-Shirt below was displayed on a Website dedicated to M. Manson, The Nachtkabarett. It features a Nazi Swastika, a Satanic symbol (an inverted Jesus on the cross) and a command to the Satanic Nazi Youth Movement, that is presumably to begin the apocalypse, which Manson sometimes announces in his performances.
Satanic Nazi T-Shirt from a M.M. Website
There are so many pre-conceived ideas about both Satanism and Nazism, it may be helpful to think of this social phenomenon as a form of “mystical facism” and not what you normally think of as stereotypical Satanism or Nazism. The people involved often do not seem to be overt racists, so do not appear to be classical Nazis. Also, the issue with Satanism does not seem to secret ritualistic child molestation or stereotypical satanic sacrifice ceremonies as people feared in the Satanic panic of the 80’s, but a already widespread attempt by a not necessarily organized subculture to foster an environment that is permissive to the further development of “mystical fascism” and eventual transformation of society.
Marilyn Manson may not be a classic Nazi, but he has publicly declared himself to be a Satanist and was ordained as a minister in the Church of Satan. Satanism as well as certain other broader groups of pagans, occultists and Satanists have much ethically in common with Nazi beliefs and have co-opted the powerful symbolism of Nazism and some of their methods for their own use to further their own occult agendas. The original Charles Manson was one of the first to set this trend of very publically mixing the occult, Satanism and Nazism in his philosophy, although Aleister Crowley and other related groups had relationships to fascism and nazism during the 1930’s, 40’s and even earlier. Probably for that reason Charlie Manson has become an iconic figure for these groups and is considered a prophet of the apocalypse, as is Hitler.
Manson and the Church of Satan
The in book, “The Cultic Milieu” edited by Jeffrey Kaplan, Kaplan qoutes Michael Aquino, formerly a priest in the Church of Satan as giving the following explanation why Satanists admire Hitler but do not necessarily identify with the so-called Hollywood neo-Nazis and their overt anti-semitism.
“Now you may understand why all avowed neo-Nazi groups are pariahs in the eyes of the Church of Satan. First, they know nothing of the true keys of power employed by Hitler. Instead, they glorify the anti-Semitism and the more ostentatious attributes of Nazi Germany which have been glamorized by Hollywood. Secondly, they openly champion Nazi Germany by name, setting themselves up publicly against the Auschwitz taboo. Thirdly, they propose 1930s solutions to 1970s problems.” – Michael Aquino, from “The Cultic Milieu” edited by Jeffrey Kaplan
In other words they agree with Hitler on the most important things, but they do not want to cause a public backlash by admiting that openly. Since Marilyn Manson is a member of the Church of Satan, one may perhaps assume that he subscribes to the same philosophy. The same principle might also be applied to other bands that use Satanic and Nazi symbolism. Michael Aquino later started his own satanic church, called the Temple of Set.
Below, are two photos of Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan. Note the Nordic sieg rune that appears on the inverted pentagram of his necklace. Runes were the alphabet of the Vikings and other, early germanic tribes. These germanic tribes believed the runes had magical meanings and were often used for pagan creremonial purposes. They didn’t actually write much ordinary text with them, as we do with the Latin alphabet. The Nazis revived the magical meaning of the runic alphabet and used them in their ceremonies and as Nazi logos. A sieg rune (the runic equivalent of the letter “S”) looks like a lightning bolt. Two sieg runes side-by-side constituted a logo of the Nazi SS. A single sieg rune was the symbol of the Nazi Hitler Youth. This is probably not entirely by chance that LeVay chose to use this symbol in this way. A single sieg rune superposed on an inverted pentagram suggests a satanic Hitler Youth movement. If you are a Manson/Goth/Industrial fan, LaVey may be using this symbol to refer to you, dear reader.
Anton Lavey, Church of Satan Founder, with Marilyn Manson
“Urban Warfare … Another effective warfare agent is the individual annihilator a person so frustrated with the injustices of the “justice system” or by the petty tyranny of contemporary life that he grabs an armful of guns and starts shooting into the nearest crowd. The serial killer -a contemporary phenomenon – cannot be overlooked. These incidents are often labeled “Satanic” or “cult” crimes, and will increase as a method of population reduction.” – Anton LaVey, from “Apocalypse Culture” edited by Adam Parfrey
Satanists and occultists often have an apocalyptic millennial philosophy. That is, they believe that apocalyptic chaos will occur and that the Satanists will dominate the new satanic mellenium after the chaos. That is similar to Charles Manson’s “Helter Skelter” theory. Charlie Manson believed that a race war (Helter Skelter) was about to break out and the Family would take over after the chaos was over. Anton LaVey, who is now deceased, said that we are on the verge of a “New Age of Satan”. Aleister Crowley called his new age the “Age of Horus”. Satanists sometimes believe that they can help foster the Apocalypse, by instigating the collapse of the traditional social system and fostering violence and chaos in the World. Charlie Manson believed that he could help bring on his version of the Apocalypse, which he called Helter Skelter. Marilyn Manson as many of us know was inspired by Charlie Manson.
It is interesting to note that Susan Atkins, who stabbed Sharon Tate to death, worked for Anton LeVey in the 60’s before she joined the Manson Family in his “Witches Sabbath” topless revue in San Francisco. She is in the upper right corner of the lower photo in this image below.
Mass Murderer Susan Atkins in Ritual with LeVay at Church of Satan
Marilyn Manson lives the character that he plays and does not lay it aside after a concert. He appears to believe in what he is doing and is committed to this belief. That is, contribute to a social transformation and to help bring on a New Satanic Age, as the head of his satanic church said a New Age of Satan is upon us. If you can accept this context, then Marilyn Manson’s actions may be easier to understand. That is, that he is trying to foster Satanism in preparation for the coming satanic Apocalypse and the domination of Satanism in the New Milleneum. Marilyn Manson is, by far, not the only entertainer projecting this concept. He is just the most obvious, so he makes a good example for further study.
Many people may be surprised to learn that the US Government has recognized a number of satanic churches as legitmate churches, such as the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set and the Temple of the Vampire. The churches can obtain support from the taxpayers to promote and foster Satanism by means of tax exemptions, and they also enjoy legal protection against discrimination. Vampirism, such as the Goths are fascinated with, is not just a romantic folkloric myth, but is an established mainstream religion in the US, thanks to our Government.
Aleister Crowley, an Important Influence
The modern day father of Satanism and Occultism in the Western World is Aleister Crowley, who called himself the most evil man alive and also the Beast 666, as Manson refers to himself sometimes. The Beast 666 of the Bible was to herald the onset of the Apocalypse. Crowley had a great impact on Rock music of many genres, as well as on the larger counterculture movement that arose in the 50’s and 60’s. Aleister Crowley was trying to found a new religion. He was wanted to bring on an apocalyptic transformation to the “Age of Horus” by means of sexual rituals involving orgies and bestiality. He was said to sacrifice a goat exactly at the point of climax while the goat would be poking his wife. There were rumors of human sacrifice at his short-lived Temple of Thelema in Sicily, Italy, before he was expelled from that country by the dictator, Mussolini, who apparently did have some standards. There does not seem to be any direct evidence that Crowley practiced human sacrifice. However, he did talk about the benefits of human sacrifice as the most powerful form of sacrifice and also who would make the best candidate for sacrifice (male babies). See Crowley’s book, “Magick in Theory and Practice” for more details.”
Aleister Crowley, in Latter Years. An
Important Influence on Marilyn Manson
Here are a few quotes from Crowley’s “Liber AL vel Legis” or “Book of the Law” that Crowley said was channeled to him by a demon. Many satanists consider the Book of the Law to be sacred scripture.
III, 11: Worship me with fire and blood; worship me with swords and with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me; let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, O warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat!
III, 12: sacrifice cattle, little and big; after a child.
III, 18: mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!
III, 24: The best blood is of the moon, monthly; then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven; then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers; last of some beast, no matter what.
III, 34: Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awake the lust and worship of the Snake another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globed priest another; sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign.
The current Church of Satan says that they are not to be a direct offshoot of Crowley’s organization, the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which had a lodge in the Los Angeles area up until shortly after WWII, but there has been much personal contact between the two groups and also with the Manson Family, when they were still active. It seems that LaVey did not want to acknowledge that he got many of his ideas from the OTO, just because he did not want to share credit. There is much commonality and much influence came from the OTO. The OTO lodge in Los Angeles was most closely associated with a Engineer at the Joint Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, named Jack W. Parsons. Understanding Aleister Crowley’s beliefs and goals and the later Satanists and occultists that he influenced may help provide a better understanding of Marilyn Manson. All of these occult groups, the Manson Family, the OTO, the Church of Satan, some Nazi elements and other occult groups such as the Process Church of the Final Judgment, a doomsday cult that was an offshoot of Scientology, and the current Church of Scientology have had many interconnections and commonalities. All of them except the Nazis can trace the lineage of many of their basic beliefs back to Aleister Crowley, who was called the “Wickedest Man in the World” and “The Beast 666”.
Brian Hugh Warner claims that he took the name “Marilyn Manson” for “artistic reasons”. However the “make-believe” Marilyn Manson also has several real, if indirect, connections to the real mass murderer, Charles Manson via close personal associates. For example, an early mentor, Boyd Rice, visited Charles Manson in prison and said that he discussed common goals with Charlie Manson with regard to the then budding neo-Nazi movement in California in the 1980’s. Charlie Manson was an occultist and a “Satanist”. Susan Atkins, a Manson Family member that participated in the Manson mass murders, worked at one time for Anton LaVey, the leader of the Church of Satan, before she joined the Manson Family. The underground filmmaker, Ken Anger, who was a member of the OTO worked closely with Manson Family member, Bobby Beausoleil. Charles Manson studied Scientology in prison and had a relationship with the Process Church of the Final Judgement, which was an offshoot of Scientology. That is just a couple of examples, but the point is that these occult groups were all interconnected and had connections to the entertainment industry. There were many people in these groups that were friends of the Manson Family then and a similar group of people that still have a fascination for Charlie Manson and his philosophy still exists today. In the book entitled “Art That Kills” by George Petros, Marylyn Manson is quoted on page 35 as saying:
“I want to make a point of saying that many Charles Manson references are our references to his strange-yet-genius gray matter….. I’m bringing his strange thinking into the real world. And sometimes it’s neither a tribute nor a criticism; it’s just putting it back where it belongs.”– Marilyn Manson (aka Brian Warner)
Charlie Manson was convicted of murdering seven people and bragged that he had murdered 35 people. This is the “genius” that Marilyn Manson wants to bring into the World, “where it belongs”.
Marilyn Manson’s idea of the Work of a Genius.
The Sharon Tate Murder
Sharon Tate was murdered when she was eight months pregnant and begged the killers to “let my baby live”. Reportedly, she asked them to cut the baby out of her stomach and for Manson’s satanic cult of murderers to take it and raise it so that it would live. Neither she nor the baby was granted mercy, but stabbed dozens of times. It was testified in court that Susan Atkins consumed some of Sharon Tate’s blood and then dipped a towel in Tate’s blood and wrote the word “pig” on the wall. Satanists believe that the blood of sacrifices contains a magical life-force carrying substance, that the ancient Hindus called “Prana” that can impart special powers to those that consume it. A rope is tried around the necks of Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring, which Charlie wanted to use to hang their bodies from the front porch but was unable to hoist them.
In the image below, the cuts on Manson chest and the “blood” on his lips, apparently are a reference to the blood-drinking rituals practiced by some satanists and vampires, where people cut themselves to produce bleeding and then drink each other’s blood.
Marilyn Manson, Satanic Vampire
This is a scene from the hardcore pornographic film “Club Satan – The Witches Sabbath” of a young woman participating in the Satanic communion by drinking a mixture of blood, urine and feces. A selling point for one of the bands in the film as stated at the link just given is that one of the bands “has had fans kill for them”. The Church of Satan is listed in the credits of this film and apparently was cunsulted, although the film does not claim to be necessarily an accurate portrayal of Satanism. The satanic communion is said to consist of eating the feces and drinking the blood and/or urine of the coven leader.
Depiction of Satanic Communion during the Witches Sabbath
This image shows band members drinking M. Manson’s urine. This seems to allude to the satanic cummunion of drinking the coven leaders body fluids and consuming his excrement. The title of one of Manson’s Albums, plays on the satanic communion, which has been claimed to have been the practice of Satanists since the Middle Ages. Eat Me, Drink Me seems to be a play on the words of Christ at the Last Supper to symbolically “eat of my flesh and drink of my blood”, however here it can be taken to be a reference to satanic communion.
Eat Me / Drink Me
Manson Followers drink his Urine
It is known that real satanic vampirism exists in the US and is at least one church, The Church of the Vampire, is even recognized as a legitimate religion by the US Government. Non-vampiric satanists are reported to also drink blood as Susan Atkins did at the Tate murder scene. In the book, “Investigating Religious Terrorism and Ritualistic Crimes” published by the CRC Press, Dawn Perlmutter states the the estimated number of vampires in the US varies widely from 1,000 to 100,000. She also states that the counter-culture Goth Movement is an integral part of the vampire scene. She says that, while many Goths will go on to something else outside of the occult, many will be recruited into the vampire subculture or other occult movements.
In this video Marilyn Manson (without makeup) consecrates the beginning of his satanic national career at the very site of the Tate Murders at 10050 Cielo Drive, where the Manson Family brutally mass murdered five people. The video below was recorded with the group, Nine Inch Nails, in the same room that the pregnant Sharon Tate was slaughtered. The leader of Nine Inch Nails, Trent Reznor, lived in the house. He helped Marilyn Manson begin touring nationally.
NIN and Manson Play at Tate Murder Scene
Below is a watercolor by Marilyn Manson, apprently based on an original drawing with similar theme by Charlie Manson. Does the Vampire represent Hitler and/or Marilyn Manson as a Nazi Vampire, terrorizing the Untermenschen that he soars above on gossamer Nazi wings, killing at random?
Manson Art – Nazi Vampire Stalks Victims
Below M. Manson is displaying what appears to be a German army rifle and a lamb, the symbol of Christian sacfrifice and Martyrdom. Is Manson suggesting that Christians should be martyred?
Armed Manson with Symbol of Christian Sacrifice
Leno LaBianca was killed by the Manson Family and the word “War” carved on his chest as a sign that Manson’s apocalypse, Helter Skelter, had started. In the image next to LaBianca’s body, Marilyn Manson heralds his own apocalypse. Are people really surprised that some fans go out and commit mass murders?
LaBianca Corpse and Manson Display Apocalyptic Message
Next is a photo of Manson’s Girlfriend Evan Rachel Wood on the Cover of “h” Magazine. She has a sieg-Rune inside a heart tattoed on her leg. The Sieg-Rune was the symbols of Hitler’s Nazi Youth and has apparently been coopted by Satanists to represent their own satanic Nazi youth movement. Inside a heart suggests a meaning of “Love the Satanic Nazi Youth”. So the sieg-rune inside a heart can be taken in this context to mean “I love the Satanic Nazi Army.” The six-pointed star worn on the armband, proably does not represent the Jewish Nation in this satanic context. It appears to be just an attempt to divert attention from the Nazi symbolism. This six-pointed star is called the “Seal of Soloman” by the Freemasons and other occultists. It was also used by the Knights Templar, from whom — the Freemasons as well as some satanists — claim heritage. Satanists have coopted much symbolism from the Freemasons. In this context the meaning may be associated with Apocalypse, because the re-building of Soloman’s Temple is supposedly a sign of the approaching Apocalypse. The overlapping opposing triangles of the hexagram also represent the unification of opposites, i.e. good and evil. The unification of good and evil, as well as apocalyptic tranformation are basic concepts of the satanic Process Church of the Final Judgment. M. Manson has also expoused this idea of the unification of good and evil.
Evan Rachel Wood Displaying Nazi and Apocalyptic Symbols
Some people do actually admire Charlie Manson and his philosophy. LaVey’s son-in-law, Nikolas Schreck and daughter, Zeena, made an apologetic documentary of Charlie Manson, entitled “Charles Manson Superstar”. Boyd Rice admitted in an interview that he would be fascinated, if Charlie had enough influence over his fans that he could compel them to kill for him. It should be considered that Marilyn Manson may, be an admirer of the philosophy of the mass murderer, Charles Manson, and may even be trying to foster Manson’s philosophy in the World, as he is quoted above, to help bring on this transformation of the World to the Satanic Age. If a single Charles Manson created such fear and panic in the late sixties, what could many of them do today? Now, there are well-established occult, Satanic and Nazi subcultures, which have similar goals, and could conceivably coalesce into a mass movement at some time. This may well sound absurd, but the original ideas of Charles Manson were also absurd. That does not mean there were not people that capable of believing such things and acting on the belief. Marilyn Manson is just one example of a person that has influence on the fringe underclass of Satanic Nazis, but of course, not the only influence. It is much more widespread than just Marilyn Manson. There are others in the entertainment industry that also have subversive motives and goals. This does not have to be a conspiracy, just a group of like-minded people that hate “the System” and want to undermine it in any way that they can and cause as much fear and chaos as possible.
Nazi Symbolism used by Marilyn Manson
Marilyn Manson can be considered a musical propagandist, of the type mentioned by the Tom Metzger in his Interview of Rice Boyd, which can be seen in a video in another section lower in this page. It may not be well known, but some of the original Nazis leaders were also artists, Hitler was a painter and Joseph Goebbels was a writer, for example. In a speech at the Reichsparteitag in Nuremberg in 1934 Goebbels said the following:
Propaganda must be creative. It is by no means a matter for the bureaucracy or official administration, but rather it is a matter of productive fantasy. The genuine propagandist must be a true artist. He must be a master of the popular soul, using it as an instrument to express the majesty of a genuine and unified political will. – Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Party Rally, Nuremberg, 1934.
“Truly Creative Artists”, Dr. Joseph Goebbels and Marilyn Manson, M/CoS
Hitler also concentrated on youth, because he knew that youth have not yet had a lot of social conditioning and have not yet developed a strong identity. For that reason, they are more susceptible to propaganda and more easily corrupted. Manson compares his fans to the Hitler Youth in his performances or we might call them the Satanic Nazi Youth. He seems to like to fantasize himself being the Top Nazi and the fans being slavish fanatical followers. The Hitler youth drummers, like those in Leni Riefenstahl’s Nazi propaganda films, appear in some of his performances and he uses other symbols that are similar to the symbols of the Hitler Youth, as you will see below.
These are the main ways that Marilyn Manson makes allusions to Nazism:
Use of graphic or verbal symbols and allusions associated with Nazism. Frequent use of the Nazi colors of the Third Reich, black/white/red. The choice of a stage name of an admirer of Hitler, Charlie Manson.
Some people say Marilyn Manson uses Nazi symbols as satire of Nazism or satire of the “Nazi America”. However, satire means that you are ridiculing the object of the satire. Nazism is not being ridiculed in Manson’s act, rather he is glamorizing it. Manson attracts more than a few fans that have a unhealthy fascination with Nazism. People do not generally gravitate to places where they are being ridiculed. Manson seems, rather, to be ridiculing those that try to suppress Nazism and the use of Nazi symbolism and encouraging those that have a not very healthy fascination with Nazism. Below, a few examples of the ways that he may make allusions and references to Nazism are pointed out.
One of the most obvious Nazi Symbols used by Marilyn Manson are the so-called “war colors” of the Third Reich, black/white/red as seen in the Nazi Kriegsmarine Flag and the Manson stage setting:
The black/white/red Nazi Kriegsmarine Flag
Marilyn Manson, in Hitler’s Place at Podium,
Displays the Nazi “War Colors”
Another Nazi symbol seen in the above image is the Sieg-Rune which is used by the Nazis, represented by the circled, down-arrow figure in the image above. The image below has some Nazi symbols, including the Totenkopf (death’s head symbol) which was the symbol of the SS, who operated Hitler’s industrial mass murder factories and is a favorite symbol in several forms among Nazis, in general, then as well as now. The Iron cross is not necessarily a Nazi symbol unless used with other Nazi symbols in a Nazi context. In fact that’s true of all of these symbols. The meaning of these symbols depends on the context and how they are used in combination with other symbols.
Common Nazi symbols the SS (Double Sieg Rune) Logo,
the Totenkopf (skull) and Iron Cross
A Single Sieg Rune was used by the Hitler youth as their logo as in the image below:
Nazi Hitler-Youth displaying Sieg-Rune Logo
Manson’s Logo is similar to the single sieg rune and also is called the Satanic Army Logo as seen here:
Marilyn Manson Logo and Satanic Army Logo
David Berkowitz, who was convicted of the Son of Sam murders said that the murders were carried out by a satanic cult and said that they thought of themselves as soldiers in the satanic army. That was in the 70’s. The Son of Sam cult used double sieg runes as a logo at their ritual site, where they sacrificed animals and performed other rituals, reportedly including drinking of blood. Son of Sam can be abreviated as “SS”.
Some Insignia of the Nazi military
So, it seems this Manson logo looks strikingly similar to the Logo of Hitler’s Nazi Youth. It is also similar to this Nazi Luftwaffe badge. The down bolt in the Luftwaffe badge represents “strike” and that could also be taken to be the meaning of the Marilyn Manson symbol. In other words, it can be taken as a symbol commanding Manson fans, the Satanic Nazi Youth Movement to “strike” or “destroy”. But strike or destroy whom? Your parents? Your schoolmates? Political piggies, like a defenseless, pregnant Sharon Tate?
Nazi Badge with Arrow Design
And similar to this emblem of the British Union of Fascists.
Union-of-Fascists Emblem
Below Manson shows off his new Totenkopf (Death’s Head) tattoo that can be taken to allude to Nazism or the occult. On his other arm he has an inverted pentagram tattoo which has the shape of a goat’s head. The inverted (downward-pointing) pentagram is an occult symbol that is often used to represent the call of demons into the physical World. The goat represents lust or carnal desire. The crudely tattooed demon above the pentagram can perhaps represent the demons that are being called to Earth.
Manson shows-off his new Totenkopf Tattoo
The mass murderer of Valentines Day, 2008 at University of Northern Illinois, Steve Kazmierczak, had his arms tattooed not unlike Manson’s arms. The Chicago Sun Times reported that his best friend said that he started getting involved in Satanism and white power hate groups since his junior year in High School. He had a satanic inverted pentagram tattooed on his arm. The pentagram tattoo is a symbol of the Church of Satan, in which Marilyn Manson has been ordained as a minister. Kazmierczak’s tattoo more nearly matches the inverted pentagram of the Church of Satan than Manson’s tattoo does, probably because Manson got his tattoo when he was young before he joined the CoS. Such a pentagram tattoo is supposed to signify a priest of the Church of Satan. However, some people are free-lancers. So, it does not mean that he belongs to any particular satanic group. It is not clear that Kazmierczak was a Manson fan, but Kazmierczak is also reported to have been a fan of industrial music, like several other school shooters recently have been.
Tatoos of Satanist, Mass Murderer and Industrial Music Fan, Steve Kazmierczak
Such are the demons being summoned. Six more innocent young students lost their lives at NIU in sacrifice to demonic hate and blood lust.
The drummer boys that Manson uses in his video, “This is the New Shit”, are straight out of a Nazi Propaganda Film by Leni Riefenstahl, “Triumph des Willens” (Triumph of the Will).
The Hitler Youth frequently has flames painted on their drums, as in the poster below. The meaning of Nazi flame symbol is “change” or “revolution”. The Nazis used flames frequently as a symbol and in their ceremonies, such as bonfires, book burnings and massive torch-light parades. Some Nazi/fascist/racist groups still use flames in their logos and ceremonies, such as the Front National in France, the Nationale Sammlung in Germany and, of course, the KKK with their cross burnings.
Hitler Youth Poster with Flame-Drums
Marilyn Manson has the flames like those of the Hitler Youth’s flames of the Nazi Revolution painted on his face in the image below.
The Flames of Nazi-Revolution
In the image below, the Statue of Liberty appears to be in the background with the Hitler Youth’s flames radiating from the crown, apparently connoting Nazi-Revolution in America. A closer view reveals the flames as women’s’ legs illuminated with red light. From a distance they look like flames.
Statue of Liberty radiating the Flames of Nazi-Revolution.
Mickey Mouse is also a symbol for America and the Mickey Mouse ears in the logo on the podium above are worn by the Totenkopf symbol of the Nazi-SS. This symbolizes, presumably, a Nazi America?
Below is the Golden Age of Grotesque logo. Two M’s for Marilyn Manson or is each M actually a large “H” and a small “h” pushed together standing for “Heil, heil” or “Heil Hitler”?
This symbol below is the “Wolfsangel” or “Wolf’s Hook”, a symbol used by a division of the Waffen-SS in WWII, a famous, Nazi post-war terrorist group (The Werewolves or “Werwölfe” in German) and certain neo-Nazi groups more recently:
Wolfsangel Nazi SS Symbol
The M’s in the Manson logo look a lot like the Wolfsangel symbol. If you shift the left part up and shift and elongate some of the vertical lines, you can make a symbol that matches Manson’s symbol.
Manson’s Modified Wolfsangel
The Beautiful People – Promoting Social Darwanism and Fascism
Manson’s song “The Beautiful People” can be taken to be praise of Social Darwanism and Fascism. Social Darwinism was a key Nazi/Fascist principle. That is, the strong should rule and the weak are only useful as slaves or are to be eliminated when no longer useful.
The worms in this song can be assumed to represent the ones that Manson hates, i.e. the ones that don’t agree with Manson’s philosophy. Hitler and Nazi Propaganda used to dehumanize the Jews as maggots or vermin, such as rats. In order to kill people, it is necessary to dehumanize them first. In the lyrics below, Manson talks of the “worms” that “live in every host”.
Let Bavaria quarrel as much as it liked with Prussia and Prussia with Bavaria. The more, the merrier. This bitter strife between the two states assured peace to the Jew. Thus public attention was completely diverted from the international maggot in the body of the nation; indeed, he seemed to have been forgotten. — Mein Kampf, by Adolf Hitler
Manson standing in the window of the classic brick italian building, puts him in the place of Mussolini, the Italian fascist dictator, who made speeches from similar settings.
Manson – The Beautiful People
Lyrics:
“The Beautiful People”
And I don’t want you and I don’t need you
Don’t bother to resist, or I’ll beat you
It’s not your fault that you’re always wrong
The weak ones are there to justify the strongThe beautiful people, the beautiful people
It’s all relative to the size of your steeple (Those with the most power will rule)
You can’t see the forest for the trees
You can’t smell your own shit on your kneesThere’s no time to discriminate, (Later there will be time to go after minorities.)
Hate every motherfucker
That’s in your way[Chorus:]
Hey you, what do you see?
Something beautiful, something free?
Hey you, are you trying to be mean?
If you live with apes man, it’s hard to be clean (Wonder who he means by the “apes”?)The worms will live in every host
It’s hard to pick which one they eat mostThe horrible people, the horrible people
It’s as anatomic as the size of your steeple
Capitalism has made it this way,
Old-fashioned fascism will take it away[Chorus]
There’s no time to discriminate
Hate every motherfucker
That’s in your wayThe beautiful people
The beautiful people (aahh) [x4][Chorus x2]
The beautiful people [x8]
Chris Rock Parody of Manson
Relationship to the Totalitarian Scientology Cult
Manson has an close friend from Austria, a well-known “shock artist” named Gottfried Helnwein. Manson was married in Helnwein’s castle in Ireland. Helnwein has had a life-long sick obsession with Nazi themes. He has collaborated with Manson (as well as other “dark” rock groups, such as Rammstein) on artwork that often alludes to Nazi themes, torture, human mutilation and disfiguration, which Manson uses on stage. He was pretty much socially ostracized and driven out of Austria and Germany, due to his reported leadership in the Scientology Cult and association with it’s intelligence service. We should perhaps thank Governor Schwarzenegger for personally making this fellow Austrian and famed graphic artist feel welcome in Kalifornia, where one more maniacal cult leader more or less will not make a lot of difference. The Scientology Cult is is know to actively recruit and to influence entertainers and politicians. Schwarzenegger and cult-leader Helnwein have been friends for 15-20 years.
This image is part of the scientology compound in Hemet, California, which is surrounded by barbed wire, surveillance camers, electrified fences and numerous sites that can be used as gun emplacements. The Castle is built in Gothic style. It is not well-known, but Charlie Manson studied Scientology for a while, when he was in prison.
Ready for Apocalypse in High Desert
Scientology HQ in Hemet, CA
Cultist Helnwein in his Studio with Friend from the “Ostmark”
The founder of Scientlogy, L. Ron Hubbard was involved in the satanic OTO lodge in Los Angeles, founded by a follower of Aleister Crowley and led by an JPL engineer named Jack Parsons. You can google for L. Ron Hubbard and Jack Parsons and find a lot of related information. Much of Hubbard’s concept of Scientology seems to have come from his study of Crowley’s occult practices as well as hypnosis and theories about psychology. So, it does not seen entirely surprising to see a leading Scientologist and leading Satanist working together. It’s like the old days with Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard.
Below is a print by Helnwein, entitled “Epiphany”. The Epiphany was the adoration of Jesus by the Three Wise Men. This painting casts Hitler as the Messiah. The baby surrounded by Nazi SS men represents baby Adolf Hitler, as the Messiah, in the place of baby Jesus, with a very Teutonic Virgin Mary and three admiring Nazi-SS officers as the Magi.
Baby Hitler, the Messiah, with Aryan Mary and 3 Nazi-SS Magi
Now, here is an interesting photo for you. Marilyn Manson is posing before Helnwein’s image of Hitler and the three SS wise men, exactly at the right hand of the new born messiah, Baby Hitler, very symbolic.
M. Manson standing at right Hand of Baby Hitler, the Messiah
In the Middle Ages there was a myth that Jews needed to use the blood of Christian children in their rituals for the celebration of Passover. This charge and others were also contained in the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, an anti-Semitic hoax published in the 20th century and used for Nazi propaganda purposes. This libelous myth has been used as an excuse to murder whole communities of Jews. In the photograph below, “Epiphany III, Presentation at the Temple”, Helnwein seems to revive this this old blood libel against the Jews.
A Group of “Jews” inspect a Christian Child before Sacrifice
Besides making amazing images of the heroic, messianic Nazi Dictator, Adolf Hitler and equally amazing images of evil Jews, Helnwein says that he just really loves children and accordingly he enjoys making images of innocent, small children that sometimes appear to be dead or are horribly burned, deformed and mutilated, like in the examples below. The one in the middle seems to be in the process of being strangled.
Some examples of Helnwein’s Images of Children
Helnwein is reported to have been an Auditor V (clergyman) and involved with the Secret Service of the “Church of Scientology”, a group that the German Government has declared a cult, having Gnostic Occult leanings and a totalitarian, anti-democratic organizational structure with aspects of criminality. Germany has declared the cult unconstitutional and is seeking to ban it. Since the Nazis and there philosophy had roots in a similar undemocratic, totalitarian Gnostic cult-like organizations, such as the Theosophical Society and the Germanenorden (Teutonic Order), the German Government is still very cautious about such groups.
Helnwein is reported to have said that Christianity is the root of all fascism and his life’s goal is to destroy it. Adolf Hitler, who also knew a little about fascism, said that Christianity is one of the World’s greatest plagues, comparing it to Smallpox. Helnwein seems much in agreement with der liebe Führer on that point, regarding their mutual hate for the Christian religion. Helnwein, on his website assures us that Marilyn Manson has absolutely no Nazi sympathies and he should know, since he did much of the design. Somehow, however, his statement, coming from a man who has apparently been a leader what has been rule to be a totalitarian cult, and portrays a baby Hitler as the Messiah, does not seem terribly reassuring. Once you know Helnwein collaborates with Manson on design, it becomes more understandable why there is so much Nazism in his performances. They have a mutual fascination with Nazism.
Manson often shows whites in blackface, which is a regression to the Minstrel Period. During slavery blacks entertained their masters with dancing and singing, while portraying exaggerated stereotypes of blacks as stupid, foolish, bumbling idiots. After the slaves were freed, it became more and more difficult to find black people who were willing to entertain white people by portraying a humiliating black stereotype. Eventually, whites dressed up like blacks in order to entertain others with the same kind of racist portrayals of blacks. Click on this link to learn more about the The Minstrel Tradition, Blackface and racism, which Marilyn Manson has revived in his act. Manson has brought back a reference to this racist style and incorporated it into his act after it has been gone from the US for almost 100 years.
Sheet Music depicting Racist Images of Blacks
in the minstrel tradition now used by Manson.
Manson has also been known to display burning crosses as on this CD cover:
Manson CD Cover
with Burning Cross
Which rather reminds you of this kind of scene:
Ku Klux Klansmen Burning Crosses
It may seem strange that Marilyn Manson, a wealthy and privileged white man can refer to himself as a “nigger”, especially a white man that is so fascinated with Nazism. This is an old Patty Smith song and may or may not be considered as being racist in the Patty Smith context. However, one should consider all of the other racist/Nazi allusions in the Manson context, which may change the perceived meaning of the song. It just seems that he loves to wallow in racist and fascist symbolism and that seems in itself to be the object rather than use of these symbols to express some other more socially-redeeming message.
Rock and Roll Nigger
In all three of the videos below, note the frequent use of the black/red/white Nazi war colors. Many of the symbols used also reflect common Nazi symbols shown above.
The Golden age of Grotesque (Fan Video)
Note in the lyrics the phrase, “It’s a dirty word, Reich.” So, maybe in the next video we should associate the dirty word “shit” with the dirty word “Reich”.
The name of the Manson video below is “This is the New Shit”. Nazis are often called “The Brown Shit” (especially in German “Die braune Scheisse”). This is due to the kaki brown color of the storm trooper uniforms that Nazis often wore. So, Manson appears to be referring to the new Nazi Reich in the title with the word “shit”. When Manson yells at the Fans “Are you ready for the new shit”, that can be taken to mean “are you ready for the new Nazi Reich”. This video seems to have been inspired by Leni Riefenstahl’s Nazi propaganda film, “Triumph of the Will” in combination with a Ku Klux Klan rally. The overall atmosphere reminds one of Hitler’s Nuremberg Nazi Party Rallies (Reichstag). The images of the drummer boys are the same as in Riefenstahl’s propaganda film. The Sieg-Rune emblems are similar to the logo of the Hitler Youth.
This is the New Shit
Below are the lyrics to the video. The words in the parentheses are interpretation, based on the Nazi-like symbolism used in this video.
“This Is The New Shit”
Everything has been said before (Once you could talk about Nazism.)
There’s nothing left to say anymore (but now you can’t.)
When it’s all the same (as before in Nazi times.)
You can ask for it by name (You will be able to openly call for the “Reich” again.)
Babble babble bitch bitch
Rebel rebel party party
Sex sex sex and don’t forget the “violence”
Blah blah blah got your lovey-dovey sad-and-lonely
Stick your STUPID SLOGAN in:
Everybody sing along.
Babble babble bitch bitch
Rebel rebel party party
Sex sex sex and don’t forget the “violence”
Blah blah blah got your lovey-dovey sad-and-lonely
Stick your STUPID SLOGAN in:
Everybody sing,
Are you motherfuckers ready?
For the new shit? (for the new Reich)
Stand up and admit, (that you are Nazi)
Tomorrow’s never coming. (Don’t put it off any longer.)
This is the new shit. (this is the new Reich)
Stand up and admit. (that you are Nazi)
Do we get it? No. (Do we get the Reich?)
Do we want it? Yeah. (Do we want it?)
This is the new shit, (This is the new Reich.)
Stand up and admit. (that you are Nazis.)
Babble babble bitch bitch
Rebel rebel party party
Sex sex sex and don’t forget the “violence”
Blah blah blah got your lovey-dovey sad-and-lonely
Stick your STUPID SLOGAN in:
Everybody sing along.
Everything has been said before
There’s nothing left to say anymore
When it’s all the same
You can ask for it by name,
Are you motherfuckers ready
For the new shit?
Stand up and admit,
Tomorrow’s never coming.
This is the new shit.
Stand up and admit.
Do we get it? No.
Do we want it? Yeah.
This is the new shit,
Stand up and admit.
And now it’s “you know who”
I got the “you know what”
I stick it “you know where”
You know why, you don’t care.
And now it’s “you know who”
I got the “you know what”
I stick it “you know where”
You know why, you don’t care.
Babble babble bitch bitch
Rebel rebel party party
Sex sex sex and don’t forget the “violence”
Blah blah blah got your lovey-dovey sad-and-lonely
Stick your STUPID SLOGAN in:
Everybody sing.Are you motherfuckers ready
For the new shit?
Stand up and admit,
Tomorrow’s never coming.
This is the new shit.
Stand up and admit.
Do we get it? No.
Do we want it? Yeah.
This is the new shit,
Stand up and admit.So,
LET US ENTERTAIN YOU
LET US ENTERTAIN YOU…
Blah blah blah blah everybody sing along.
Occult Roots of Nazism and Mansonism
It probably does not need to be pointed out that Hitler and the Nazis were also haters of the Christian religion. Hitler called Christianity a Jewish religion. Hitler thought that Christianity is a Jewish tool for subjugation of Europe and the Teutonic Race to Jewish domination. The more fanatical Nazis were promoting a regression to a pre-Christian, pagan religion, such as Manson is doing with his interest in occultism and Satanism. The term “occult” just means religious teachings that are outside of the mainstream religious teachings. Some of Manson’s sycophantic fans claim that Manson stands against Nazism, but he is a minister in the Church of Satan, which promotes Social Darwinism, the survival of the strong and the death of the weak. Social Darwinism was a basic principle of the Nazi philosophy.
Many of the basic beliefs of Nazism came out of a form of Gnostic occultism. The Theosophists, founded by Madame Blavatsky about 1875 — and actually headquartered in the New York in 1875, then San Diego, California from about 1900 and until today in Pasadena, Ca — helped develop some basic concepts, such as that of the Aryan Super Race, which were absorbed by the Nazis via the then popular Germanic Order (Germanenorden) in Germany. The Theosophists were the basis of many of the modern ideas about New Age Religion and it is interesting to note that New Age Religion and Nazism have many common roots. Among other things, the Theosophists are said to have introduced the use of the Swastika into the Western World, but in the style of the Buddhists (counter-clockwise) which Hitler standardized in the Nazi style (clockwise). You can see the (Buddhist) Swastika incorporated into their logo below, along with the Star of David. The Theosophists were/are not Nazis, they just developed some of the occult ideas that the Nazis borrowed. The Organization and other occult organizations were eventually banned in Germany by Hitler.
Logo of the Theosophical Society
It is interesting that the Swastika and, at least in part, the ideas of the Aryan Master Race (Gobineau in France also contributed), and even Eugenics came from the United States to Europe.
The occult tradition that produced Marilyn Manson is a somewhat different branch of the occult to that of the Nazis, but they share many of the same roots. The Nazi ideology was anti-Christian and pagan and the Nazis embraced the racist concept that a Aryan Super Race could be produced by selective breeding and extermination of “inferior races”.
Marilyn Manson belongs to a more traditional form of Satanism and demon worship. Some of the CoS members say that they do not believe in Satan as a physical being, but as a force that opposes what society deems to be good morally. Rice also says that he believes in Social Darwinism. That is, survival of the strongest and that the strong should rule the weak. In comparison to the Nazis, the Satanists probably believe more that mystical rituals — and especially sexual rituals — can enhance the occult powers and bring about change in the World. Some Satanists believe that human sacrifice can enhance mystical powers in individuals and/or bring about a “New Age”.
The following video is by Nine Inch Nails and illustrates some of the principles of Social Darwanism, sirvival of the fitest, animal eating animal, as well as other satanic principles such as rage against norms of society and longing for apocalypse and World transformation. The group leader, Trent Reznor, gave Marilyn Manson his first national tour. The forward is given by “former” scientologist, Oliver Stone, the director of the satanic film, Natural Born Killers, with which the Columbine Mass Murderers were fascinated. Some scenes from the movie are included in the video.
Nine Inch Nails – Burn (the World)
Charles Manson had a philosophy that seems to be a mix of Paganism/Druidism, Satanism, Nazism and modern psychological techniques. Manson was really fascinated with total control of other people and the idea that he should rule over others. Besides the more demonic aspects of his beliefs, he was exposed to more modern ideas of psychology and brainwashing. He has studied Scientology and had a relationship with an off-shoot of Scientology, called the “Process Church of the Final Judgment”, which was kind of doomsday cult. He tried to rid his followers of their conventional moral values and social conditioning by use of drugs, sex orgies and his own techniques of brainwashing, dominance and mind-control.
After the Manson murders there was a series of serial killings across the US. Some people try to relate many of these mass murders to satanic groups that had direct ties to Charlie Manson. This seems problematical, but it seems safe to assume that Manson, as well as other groups, injected Satanic Nazism into the mass psychology of the US and many later serial killings were either inspired by Manson or come from the same ideological and occult trends that inspired Manson to murder.
Boyd Rice, a Mentor of Marilyn Manson
Boyd Rice was a mentor and had a major influence on Marilyn Manson. Boyd Rice, like Marilyn Manson, is a minister in the Church of Satan and uses a lot of Nazi symbolism in his performances and likes to dress in a Nazi style and often associates with Nazis. He has admitted being fascist.
Marilyn Manson with Mentor, Boyd Rice
Boyd Rice knew Charles Manson personally and said in an interview that he was interested in the idea that someone like Charlie can dominate and manipulate his followers to the point that they would kill for him. In an interview posted on his web site, Rice says that he visited Charlie Manson in prison and that Charlie wanted him to help him start a mass movement of Manson Followers among youth. In particular he wanted Boyd Rice to try to co-opt the Nazi skinhead movement and turn them into Manson followers.
The skinheads did not join the Manson Family, so we can assume that Boyd Rice did not succeed in that particular request from Charlie. However, one must entertain the possibility that Boyd Rice may have desired to promote the Manson philosophy in other ways. So, we have to notice that Rice’s protégé Marilyn Manson is named after Charlie Manson and is promoting many elements of the Charles Manson Philosophy in the media on a grand scale. Charlie believed that random mass murders would produce chaos leading to “Helter Skelter and eventually to a “New Age”. Did Marilyn Manson also adopt similar beliefs?
Below is a clip by Boyd Rice, entitled “Total War” which is the name of a famous speech by Hitler’s propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels. You can see symbols such as the Wolf’s Hook, which was used by the SS, and the snake biting his own tail, which is a symbol for reincarnation and part of the Theosophist Logo shown above. The skulls suggest Nazi Totenkopf symbols and fire can signify revolution or transformation.
Boyd Rice’s – Total War
This clip shows Boyd Rice talking about Satanism among Rockers, in general, and his relationship with Marilyn Manson
Boyd Rice on Marilyn Manson
This clip is a 30 minute long interview of Boyd Rice by one of the leading Nazis in the US, Tom Metzger, for his radio program entitled, “Race and Reason”. In the interview they talk about fostering a aryan subculture among industrial rock fans. From the age given by Tom Metzger, it seems this interview must have been made around 1986. It shows that there were people consciously thinking about promotion of the ideas of Nazism among certain rock fans of groups that were not openly Nazi at least as early as 20 years ago. If you think about it there has arisen an underclass of angry and disaffected aryan fans of Marilyn Manson and other such groups in the last two decades, as the Nazi, Tom Metzger and Boyd Rice suggested may be possible. They are not the classic Nazis that Metzger probably would have preferred, but a more degenerate underclass of drug users, and sexually promiscuous occultists, which may not have been exactly what Metzger had in mind.
Top Nazi, Tom Metzger, Interviews Boyd Rice
Tom Metzger also wanted Boyd Rice to co-opt California’s neo-Nazi Skinhead movement, but for the Metzger camp and not as Manson followers. Metzger is more of a classic Nazi. He does not support drugs and promiscuous sex, as Rice and his protégé (Marilyn Manson) have promoted. So, Metzger may have released this video because of a disagreement with Boyd Rice over these goals and issues.
This image is of Boyd Rice and Bob Heick in Sassy Magazine in 1988 in Nazi skinhead uniforms. Heick was an admitted leader of the Nazi skinhead “American Front at” that time, but Boyd said that he was only wearing the Nazi uniform, because he really liked Deick quite a lot. (lol)
Boyd Rice and Bob Heick in Nazi Uniforms
Below, is an image of Boyd Rice with a sign which combines “love” and Nazism or “hate”. Duality or the combination and relativization of opposites, such and Christ/Satan is a common satanic principle, expressed or symbolized often in many different ways by Marilyn Manson and other Satanists.
Boyd Rice, Mentor of Manson
Marilyn Manson’s Namesake – a Hitler Fan
Below Boyd Rice protests the imprisonment of convicted mass murderer Charles Manson. He is said to have led the effort to get Charlie Manson released from prison.
Rice Boyd at Pro-Manson Demo
Nickolas Schreck and Radio Werewolf
Radio Werewolf was an early Goth band that worked with Boyd Rice. Boyd Rice says that Charlie Manson introduced him to Nikolas Schreck by writing him about Schreck. The following two videos also demonstrate that some of the Goth predecessors of Marilyn Manson were sympathetic to Nazism and were also thinking about using music to recruit a kind of Nazi youth movement and even as a tool to promote terrorism and violence against society. These are predecessors of Marilyn Manson and people that had an influence on Marilyn Manson. They failed in what they were trying to do, but Manson seems to have picked up where they left off. That is, to recruit a so-called aryan “youth party” that is talked about in the videos. “Wolf” was Hitler’s nickname for himself, because “Adolf” is a contraction in middle high German for “Noble Wolf”. The “Werwolves” were also a terrorist group made up of SS men and Hitler Youth that killed Germans who tried to surrender at the end of WWII and tried to mount a resistance against the allies for a short time after the war. “Radio Werewolf” was the last operating clandestine propaganda radio of Josef Goebbels and the Nazi resistance.
Schreck speaks of the end of the World, the beginning of a new World and a new evolutionary step for man. In the Satanist frame of reference the end of the World can be seen as the Apocalypse after which the Satanists expect to rule in the satanic New World. The new evolutionary step for man is the Superman or Übermensch/Herrenmensch as Nietsche and the Nazis called it. Schreck married Zeena LaVey, the daughter of Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, in which Marilyn Manson is an ordained a minister in 1994. Schreck talks here about destroying the weak and elsewhere in the Interview about the population of the World needing to be greatly reduced (wu-wu, wu-wu, wu-wu). Presumably, he thinks the gas chambers will be cranked up again. Does anyone really think that Marilyn Manson is less wacko than Nikolas Schreck, his Goth predecessor and fellow collaborator with Boyd Rice?
Below are a couple of clips from the interviews:
Nazi Chief, Metzer, interviews an early Goth Band
Nazi, T. Metzger, interviews a Goth Satanist/Nazi
These interviews were done about 20 years ago, the second one in 1988, not long before the time that Boyd Rice was helping Marilyn Manson start his career. Manson formed his band in 1989, When Nikolas Schreck speaks of using musical propaganda, he was not the last one to do it. It did not stop at that time, 20 years ago. There are many entertainers, especially in the Metal, Industrial and Goth music scenes that are still today using musical propaganda to promote Nazi/fascist concepts. Is Marilyn Manson the intentional result of the stated efforts of Satanists like Nikolas Schreck and Boyd Rice to promote a Nazi-style Satanic Youth Movement?
The black, minister-like clothes and apocolyptic, Nazi-like philosophy of Boyd Rice and Nikolas Schreck is reminescent of that of one of the now defunct mother cults of Satanism in the 60’s, the Process Church of the Final Judgment. Manson’s Family had close ties to the Process Church and they were accused of carrying out human sacrifice and ritualistic drinking of blood in in the late 60’s by Ed Sanders in The Family. The Process Church used Nazi-like symbolism and the organization was described by some as being fascistic. The Process Church dissolved in the mid 70’s, but maybe Rice, Schreck and M. Manson borrowed some concepts form them as many Satanists did. If you want to read more about it, see this article:
Note in the above article that the Process Church used an Omega Symbol much like the Omega symbol that Marilyn Manson uses. To the Processeans the omega was the symbol of the inner elite of the Process Church. From the way he dressed and the influence he had on future occult organizations, it may be not be unreasonable to think of the Founder of the Process Church, Robert DeGrimston, as the first Goth. A prinicple of his was also “to bring out the beast in man”, similar to what Schreck promotes. Some people think the Process Church did not dissolve but just splintered and morphed into or was absorbed by other occult organizations. The Process Church was also known to actively recruit entertainers and had relationships with a number of Holywood entertainers.
If you really want to know more about the relationship with the Manson Family, read the book, “The Family” by Ed Sanders in the bibliography. They sued Sanders over the book and he had to take their name out of the book, but where he talks about a “certain English satanic cult” you can probably assume he is talking about the Process Church. The Manson Family was thought by some to just be a branch of the Process Church. “Turn off Your Mind” by Gary Lachman also has some information about the Process Church.
Are Goth/Industrial Fans Part of the Satanic Nazi Army?
Satanists and Nazi Fans, Boyd Rice and Nikolas Nikolas Schreck, were both influences on Rocker’s like Marilyn Manson and both spoke of a Aryan Youth Movment. They talked of bringing out the “Beast” in man and there totem animal was the Wolf. It is fairly obvious that they were influenced by the ideas of the satanic Process Church of the Final Judgemnet, who were said to participate in blood drinking ritual and human sacrifice. Goth’s frequently wear black military style dress and boots, not unlike Boyd Rice in a previous image. Are they the Satanic Nazi Army and the Aryan Youth Movement which Rice and Schreck proposed? This concept is also used in the Metal scene. A number of bands make allusions to their fans as being the Hitler youth or an Army. For more about the Satanic Army see the video on this page about David Berkowitz, Son of Sam and the Satanic Army.
Poster from Goth Site
Below is a video apparently made as an advertisement for a Vampire website popular with Goths, VampireFreaks:
The Satanic Army Cult of Vampire Freaks
The cult-like Goth movement uses young women as a recruiting tool, as Charlie Manson did with his Cult, The Family. Extreme morbidity, blood, gore, death, satanism and vampirism are typically a major part of the program as in this video below, especially towards the end. For those who may not know, “Brujah” means “witch” in spanish.
Brujah – Gothic Blood Godess
The next clip is apparently a dramatization of the video taken from Columbine security cameras and a call to the police from a student. The video shows two Satanic Nazi Youth expressing their discontent with society.
Satanic Nazi Youth at Columbine
Does Manson Throw Destructive Curses from Stage?
The “scripture” of the Church of Satan is the so-called “Satanic Bible” written by the now deceased Anton LaVey. It is interesting to note that there is a chapter in the Satanic Bible that describes how human sacrifice should be performed. The following quote is from chapter entitled “On the Choice of a Human Sacrifice.”
The use of a human sacrifice in a Satanic ritual does not imply that the sacrifice is slaughtered “to appease the gods”. Symbolically, the victim is destroyed through the working of a hex or curse, which in turn leads to the physical, mental or emotional destruction of the “sacrifice” in ways and means not attributable to the magician.
LaVey says that people who have “unjustly wronged you” are suitable candidates for human sacrifice. LeVey did not object to killing the “enemies” of Satan. He even encourages “symbolic” human sacrifice “by proxy” saying that it is a “duty”. From Marilyn Manson’s perspective, then, it sounds as if almost every traditional US citizen, especially conservative Christians, would be suitable candidates for human sacrifice. If Manson believes in the doctrine of the Church of Satan, would feel that it is his duty to encourage attacks on Christians and other traditional Americans in a way that can, of course, not be attributed to him.
Aleister Crowley said that what he called “magick” was any act designed to cause intentional change. So, to understand Manson’s act as a curse you have to set aside pre-conceived notions of what a curse is. The way to achieve this human sacrifice by proxy is to curse the person/group or put a hex on the person/group. The way this could work is that you throw a destructive curse and someone (such as a fan) falls under your spell and carries it out for you, so that you have no direct responsibility. This is a quote from page 70 of the Satanic Bible:
To insure the destruction of an enemy, you must destroy them by proxy! They must be shot, stabbed, sickened, burned, smashed, drowned, or rent in the most vividly convincing manner!
In order to throw a curse, writes LaVey, the release of bioelectrical energy is necessary. The most practical ways of doing this is by sexual orgasm (by masturbation, for example) of by means of blind anger. One asks himself, then, if perhaps Marilyn Manson is not throwing voodoo curses using the stage as an altar. Some of his performances could perhaps be called “public rituals” in which he casts a satanic curse on his enemies (victims). He has already been arrested for masturbating on stage, so apparently that method of releasing sexual energy for throwing a voodoo-like curse does not work so well in a public situation, such as a concert. However, many of his songs contain enough blind rage from him and the crowd that one may think it may be of sufficient mystical power to throw a mighty curse at Manson’s favorite targets, conservative Christians or the conservative American society, in general. The curse is supposed to work better when multiplied by the “electrochemical release” of blind anger by others, i.e. the crowd. Perhaps this is why he frequently has icons of the US or Christianity on stage and he performs such acts as ripping up the Bible or wiping his ass with the US flag. It appears that this reverend minister of the Church of Satan may well be attempting, at times, to throw a voodoo curse at Christians and America. It is just interesting to note that this is allowed by Manson’s professed “religion”, although he may have to take some small liberties with the ritual procedures. Perhaps Satan can be flexible about how he receives his sacrifices.
At these two links you can read chapters about human sacrifice from the Satanic Bible (LeVay) and Magick Theory and Practice (by Crowley)
“The Satanic Bible” by LeVay – On the Choice of Human Sacrifice
“Magick in Theory and Practice” by Crowley – On the Bloody Sacrifice
Anti-Christ Superstar / Anti-Christian Curse?
Manson has a pathological hatred for Christians and Christianity. The extreme, anti-Christian theme of Anti-Christ Superstar fits quite well with the prevalent Nazi symbolism of these videos. Manson expresses his bigoted, chauvinistic hatred for Christianity and receives enthusiastic approval from the crowd. This video exceeds the most rabid and hateful, anti-Jewish rants that Hitler or Goebbels ever delivered (only the target for the hate-tirade is here Christians, rather than Jews) and his musical rant would probably send even some of the most fanatical Nazis of that time scurrying for the exits in panic.
Again note the “arrow” symbol on the start-up screen of this video; it is a variation of the Sieg-Rune used by the Nazis. A single Sieg-Rune was the symbol of the Nazi-youth and two Sieg-Runes was the symbol of the Nazi-SS. The Hitler Youth were seen as a kind of junior SS and Manson appears to be comparing his fans to the Hitler Youth, by using the logo similar to that of the Hitler Youth at his Nuremberg-rally-like concert.
At the beginning of this song the fans throw their hands up on cue to give the devil horns or a clinched-fist salute, very similar to the heil Hitler salute, and yell something simultaneously that sounds a lot like “heil!” as in “Heil Hitler” or “Hail” as in “Hail Satan”. Some of the fans may realize how close this is to a mass “Heil Hitler” salute of Manson by the crowd, but many of them maybe do not, but are just cued by Manson and the cadence of Manson’s performance to do this. A mass “heil Manson” salute apparently gives him a thrill, whether the entire crowd realizes the connotation to Nazism, or not.
Below the Hitler Youth (left) and modern-day Satanic Nazi Youth (right) heil/hail their Führers. It is fairly similar, but the Hitler Youth appear to be a quite a bit more orderly than the Satanic youth, forming neat rows as they heil the Great Man. Maybe the Satanic Youth can improve their form with more drilling. However, disorderliness may be a also be a more permanent issue due to the large quantities of alcohol and drugs that the Satanic Nazi Youth consume on average.
The destruction of the Bible and ranting hate tirade can be taken to be a public satanic/voodoo ritual of destruction for Christianity and Christians. He even hails the great (mystical satanic) power being generated by the hate of the Satanic Nazi Youth.
Hitler Youth and Satanic Nazi Youth Heil Their Führers
The references in the lyrics to the Antichrist being near can be taken to be references by Manson that his Apocalypse is coming heralding the “New Satanic Nazi Age” is coming soon and maybe a call to action for some of his fans that understand the satanic associations that can be made to these concepts. Many past and current murderers have thought that chaos and mass murder would trigger the apocalypse and eventual transformation of society and the “New Age”, in which presumably the Satanists would gain control.
“Hydra” is another Name for the Biblical Beast of Revelations
Manson identifies himself as the “Hydra” in the lyrics. The Hydra is a 7-headed mythical creature sometimes identified with the beast from the biblical book of Revelations. In Greek & Roman mythology Hercules fought the Hydra and when one of the heads of the hydra is cut off it would grow back and attack again.
Antichrist Superstar
Lyrics: Antichrist Superstar
You built me up with your wishing hell
I didn’t have to sell you
You threw your money in the pissing well
You do just what they tell you
Repent, that’s what I’m talking about
I shed the skin to feed the fake
Repent, that’s what I’m talking about
Whose mistake am I anyway?
Cut the head off
Grows back hard
I am the hydra
Now you’ll see your star
Prick your finger it is done
The moon has now eclipsed the sun
The angel has spread its wings
The time has come for bitter things(Chorus)The time has come it is quite clear
Our antichrist
Is almost here…
It is done
Next is a quote (from Yahoo News) that was posted in the Internet from Matthew J. Murray, a reported fan of Manson, who killed four young people in Colorado just because they were Christians. He tried to kill dozens more, before he was shot by a security guard:
“I’m coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. … God, I can’t wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don’t care if I live or die in the shoot-out.”All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you … as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world.”
“Evil” Christians shot by Manson Fan.
The four Christians above, Tiffany Johnson, Charlie Blanch, Philip Crouse and Dan Griebenow were shot by the Manson fan, Mathew Murray, in Colorado. They don’t really look very much like the evil monsters that are responsible for all the ills of the World, as one might be led to think of Christians from Manson’s musical, hate tirades. The time had indeed come, though, for “bitter things” for those families that lost loved ones, only because someone had developed a virulent, irrational hatred of their religion.
Mathew Murray intended to kill as many Christians as he could in the corwded congregation of the “New Life” megachurch in Colorado Springs, Co. The only reason that he was not able to do it was that he was shot by a guard before he could attack the main congregation. He shot two people outside the church which alerted the guard. It is not the first and will probably not be the last time something like this happens. It seems safe to say that someday a fan of these satanic music groups will be successful in mass murder on a scale larger than has been experienced so far. In recent years the fans of occult, satanic, Nazi bands have already murdered many more people in the US than Al Qeuda recently has. Yet, most people do not seem to want to take notice.
Here is a part of the lyrics to the Manson song, “Get your Gun”. Manson says that it is a response to the killing of a abortionist doctor, named “Gunn” by anti-abortionist extremists and Manson spells it “Gunn” like a name in the official lyrics. However, it can also be read as a call for violence against conservative Christians, containing the phrase, “The pro-life I will kill”? “Get your Gun” does not make much sense, if the reference is to the Doctor, but it does make more sense as a call to arms against the “Preacher” (representing conservative Christians). Most people are going to hear the song, but not necessarily read the lyrics. They will hear “get your gun” and it is written that way below. You can probably see in the video below that the animus is directed towards the “preacher” in the video, not referring to a doctor. So logically, one would more likely think that the admonishment from Manson to “Get you Gun” is directed at action against the “Christians” and not to get the doctor, “Gunn”. It seems to be reaction against the killing of the Doctor and not a portrayal of the killing of the doctor. I seems that some of Manson’s fans might easily interpret this video as a call to violence against conservative Christians. Maybe not surprisingly a Manson fan tried to massacre hundreds of Christians recently in Colorado. Probably no one would say Manson is directly responsible, but one could perhaps reasonably argue that he incites his fans to mass murder Christians.
Marilyn Manson – Get your Gun!
Partial Lyrics: Get your Gun
Goddamn your righteous hand
I eat innocent meat
The housewife I will beat
The pro-life I will kill
What you won’t do I will
I bash myself to sleep
What you sow I will reap
I scar myself you see
I wish I wasn’t me
I am the little stick
You stir me into shit
I hate therefore I am
Goddamn your righteous hand
Goddamn, goddamn (oh, lord)
Goddamn, goddamn
Pseudo-morals work real well
On the talk shows for the weak
But your selective judgments
And good guy badges
Don’t mean a fuck to me
I throw a little fit
I slit my teenage wrist
The most that I can learn
Is in records that you burn
Get your gun! Get your gun!
Get your gun! Get your gun!
Marilyn Manson named himself, of course, after Charlie Manson, who was a racist and also a admirer of Hitler, had a major misanthropic grudge against society and was considered a kind of messiah/god by his young fans. Like Marilyn, Charlie also had troublesome fans that committed, from time to time, terribly embarrassing mass murders, apparently an overreaction to Charlie’s intellectual, philosophical social criticism and his exercise of his right to free speech. He was even convicted of some of the mass murders committed by his fans and is now serving a life sentence in San Quentin Prison. Like Marilyn Manson, he claims that he is unfairly accused of responsibility for the murders. In the clip below, Charlie Manson makes it absolutely clear why a messianic idol/demigod is obviously not responsible in any way for mass murders committed by his overly exuberant, adoring fans. The reason is that he just needs to suggest it and his fans will carry out the mass murder for him.
Manson – I don’t need to kill. I just have to think it.
Marilyn Manson could have a similar motto, “I don’t have to kill, I just have to sing it.” Messianic idols whose fans commit mass murder, are sooo misunderstood, don’t you think? Those that remember Charlie Manson will remember that he tried to apply a very manipulative, self-serving logic, like Marilyn Manson does today. Also, much of Charlie’s public persona seemed to be a put-on, like Marilyn Manson’s, to shock and generate publicity. In the 60’s and 70’s, we weren’t yet quite so politically correct as we are today. Remember, it’s only art, even if a few dozen people are “inadvertantly” murdered. Charlie Manson also considered himself an artist, a musician, who used his music to help attract his “family” of believers…
Below are excerpts of two interviews taken from the documentary, “Unmasking Hollywood”, by an evangelical Christian group about how violence and violent themes in the media feed the fantasies of individuals that may already have a propensity for violence.
How the Media feeds the Fantasies of Killers
The next video is an excerpt of another video done by and evangelical group that shows David Berkowitz the “Son of Sam” mass murderer talking about how Satanism influenced him and about his conversion in jail to Christianity. Whether one believes in the Chritianity or Satanism not, there are a lot of people that do believe and that will act out the roles discussed here. There seems to be a basic human need to believe in something cosmic in scale. Disturbed people that already have violent propensities may perceive Satanism as validation to act out their violent fantasies in order to help bring about the Apocolypse or just to strike out at those they hate. The great majority of stable people may not be influenced, but Marilyn Manson seems to be speaking especially to the maniacal fringe — the future Charles Mansons, David Berkowitzes and Richard Ramirezes of the World — that can be influenced by his performances, which may only be a very small fraction of the population.
David Berkowitz, Son of Sam and the Satanic Army
The Son of Sam sometimes referred to himself in his letters to the police as “Wicked King Wicker”. This hints at his murders having to do with the Occult and human sacrifice before he was caught, because it alludes to the movie, entitled “The Wicker Man”, which was about the sacrifice of a young girl by a village of pagans. The Wicker man was a large wicker construction, which consumed the human sacrifice when it was set on fire.
This type of serial murder has been described by some occultists as a public ritual that is intended to create panic to influence the mass psyche of the population at large and to promote a contagion of like-minded atrocities, i.e. copycat murders, among other occultists, such as has indeed happened with the many school shootings lately. Marilyn Manson is not the only one in the media that can be considered to promote these murders, there are many other industrial and metal groups that have similar performances and movies that also contain very graphic violence, often with satanic symbols liberally displayed in the scenes. Two examples are “The Basketball Diaries”, which portrays an very realistic school shooting and “Natural Born Killers”, which is filled with gratuitous violence and many satanic references. Natural Born Killers was supposed to have been camp, but it was very graphic and the Columbine murderers were reportedly fascinated with these two films.
Below, a book about artists who are fascinated with and promote crime.
Artists that Promote Crime.
Below is another photo of fourteen-year-old Asa Coon, also a huge, huge fan of Marilyn Manson. That’s why he wore a M. Manson T-Shirt when he attempted to carry out a school massacre. Perhaps here the effect of today’s much more violent media can be seen, as was mentioned by Ted Bundy above. Young Asa killed himself after he shot and wounded two teachers and two students at the predominantly black Success Tech High School in Cleveland, Ohio. Asa doesn’t look at all like a monster and would-be mass murderer, either. He just looks like the regular kid next door.
Art that Killed
Asa Coon, Success Tech School Shooter, Cleveland
Asa got into a lot of fights at school. He probably was familiar with Marilyn Manson’s song, “Lunchbox”. Manson says the song is talking about using the lunchbox as a weapon. Manson likes to put dual meanings in his songs and you could also interpret it as meaning there is a gun in the lunchbox. Most kids do not refer to their lunchboxes as their “metal” and lunchboxes do not go “pow, pow, pow”. Or, at least use of the phrase “I’m gonna get my metal” and the sound “pow, pow pow” suggest a gun more than anything else and that seems to be the way some people took it.
Marilyn Manson – Lunchbox
On we plow
The big bully try to stick his finger in my chest
Try to tell me, tell me he’s the best
But I don’t really give a good goddamn cause
I got my lunchbox and I’m armed real well
I got my lunchbox and I’m armed real well
I got my lunchbox and I’m armed real well
I wanna grow up
I wanna be a big rock and roll star
I wanna grow up I wanna be
So no one fucks with me
I got the pencils in my pocket, try to put me down
Wanna go out, gotta get out
To the playground, gonna throw down at the playground
I wanna go out
Next motherfucker gonna get my metal
Next motherfucker gonna get my metal
Next motherfucker gonna get my metal
Next motherfucker gonna get my metal
Pow pow pow,
pow pow pow,
pow pow pow,
pow pow pow,
I wanna grow up I wanna be a big rock and roll star I wanna grow
up I wanna be
So no one fucks with me
It is not being claimed here that Marilyn Manson is directly responsible for these deaths, but just that Manson’s fans and others should, at long last, consider the possibility that his performances could be a significant contributing factor for children and young people that may already be troubled and become obsessed with Manson and the extreme violent hatred and bigotry that is vomited forth during Manson’s performances, whether Manson means it seriously, or not. It would seem difficult even for normal young people to deal with the themes of Manson’s performances.
Asa Coon reportedly said that he “worshipped” Marilyn Manson, not God, and Manson is enshrined on his t-shirt. Young Asa’s God — whoever he is — has taken him to another place. May he be at peace there. He was not old enough to be fully responsible for what he did and will never get a chance to experience this life. As imperfect as it is, it is still a gift which we can make of what we will.
This next video is not directly related to Marilyn Manson, but it does give you an example of the ethics of Satanists.
Joy of Satan – Asa Coon
Manson Celebrates the Sacrifice of Asa Coon
There was a public satanic celebration by hundreds of predominately white people of an attempted mass murder of blacks held at the Palms Casino in Las Vegas on Halloween, 2007. Marilyn Manson celebrated the sacrifice of one of his followers, Asa Coon, and the attempted mass murder of black students and teachers at a predominately black high school in Cleveland. Coon shot and seriously wounded four people and then killed himself at The Success Tech School on October 10, 2007. He was only fourteen years old, too young to be held fully responsible. In his disturbed and deluded state, he probably thought he was doing what his God would want him to do.
Halloween is celebrated by satanists as a major holiday and it would be a logical time to commemorate the sacrifice of humans to Satan. The fall harvest holiday was called “Samhain” by the Druids and this is where David Berkowitz said the Son of Sam cult took their name. In the film, the Wicker Man, the human sacrifice was made on the Samhain holiday. In this case, the sacrifice of Asa Coon occurred three weeks earlier and Manson is celebrating it later on Halloween. The Son of Sam Cult also killed their victims beforehand and also celebrated their “sacrifices” later on satanic holidays. Some satanic serial killers, such as Richard Remirez (the Night Stalker) say that they kill to obtain slaves for the afterlife. The shooting is being displayed as a kind of grisly trophy for Manson and of the satanic power that he has over people.
Palms Casino Resort apparently has no objection to this celebration of teen suicide and mass murder taking place on their premises and what amounts to a public call for more mass murders of school children being trumpeted from Palm Casino Resorts. Who needs to fear Al Qaeda when we have the rabid Mullah of Rock, Marilyn Manson, issuing his own fatwas of hate from Palms Casino Resorts in Las Vegas, insinuating that he thinks it is a momentus occasion, when one of his angry, disturbed young fans attempts to massacre school children? The managers of Palm Casino Resorts should offer a public apology to the family of this disturbed young boy and the victims of school shootings at Success Tech Academy for allowing this event to take place on their premises.
A video of the celebration of a satanic human sacrifice follows, set to the Manson’s aptly named “Irresponsible Hate Anthemn”. Here is a quote from the lyrics “let’s just kill everyone and let your god sort them out – fuck it”. The viewer may also notice that Marilyn Manson does a quick Nazi salute more than once during the performance, specifically at 00:45 and 01:38 in this video.
Satanic Celebration of the Sacrifice of Asa Coon
Short press descriptions of the suicide of – and attempted mass murder by – Asa Coon are projected on the screen behind the stage. The descriptions emphasis the influence that Marilyn Manson had on the would-be mass murderer of black school children. They point out that Asa Coon thought Manson was God and was killing for him, as shown by the Manson t-shirt that he wore. Manson tells his fans that he is God. In this context the text of the song “Irresponsible Hate Anthemn” (shown below) appears to be associating Asa Coon with the role of the “nigger” and the black students/teachers as the “haters”. So this performance can easily be seen as being a racist celebration by hundreds of angry young white people of hate and the attempted mass murder of black school students and teachers in Cleveland.
A number of this type of murder/suicide has occurred among Goth/Industrial fans. In the year 2000, three Goth Manson fans sacrificed a catholic nun to Satan in Italy. At the beginning of the song Manson turns around twice to look at the screen, apparently to make sure the text is displayed so that his fans will be awed by how much power he has over the life and death of people. People today associate human sacrifice with primitive stone-age tribes that lived hundreds or thousands of years ago. Some will undoubtable be surprised to learn that what ammounts to public encouragement of such deeds take place here in the United States and that some disturbed young people are acting on those suggestions.
This is the text shown on the screen behind Manson, as well as it can be made out, when looked at frame by frame on a larger display:
Students hid under tables, in closets.
Witnesses said the shooter moved through the commercial
five-story downtown office building working his way up
through the first two floors of administrative offices to the
third floor of classrooms. Officials said that he wore a
black Marilyn Manson concert shirt, black jeans and
black-painted finger nails.Coon’s problems seemed to come to a tipping point this
week when he was suspended for fighting outside with a
classmate.Students said Monday’s fight was over God — Coon told
his classmates he didn’t believe in God and instead
worshipped rocker, Marilyn Manson.“I knew that the dude was crazy.” a classmate told TV
reporters “we used to say he’s going to come one day and
shoot us up – but we never knew it was really going to
happen.Coon a “Goth” who decked himself out with black nail
polish a trench coat, a Marilyn Manson T-shirt and
who claimed to worship the devil had been beaten up for
saying “fuck God.” one student said.October 10, 2007
Cleveland, OH (Crime Library) – A young man wearing a black
Marilyn Manson concert shirt, black jeans and black-painted finger
nails walked into Success tech Academy yesterday, armed with two .38
caliber revolvers, and opened fire, shooting four people before turning
the gun on himself.
And these are the lyrics to the song he is singing in honor of Asa Coon:
“Irresponsible Hate Anthem”
I am so all-american, I’ll sell you suicide
I am totalitarian, I’ve got abortions in my eyes
I hate the hater, I’d rape the raper
I am the animal who will not be himself
fuck itHey victim, should I black your eyes again?
Hey victim,
You were the one who put the stick in my hand
I am the ism my hate’s a prism (An ism? Like maybe Nazism?)
let’s just kill everyone and let your god sort them out
fuck itEverybody’s someone else’s nigger
I know you are so am I
I wasn’t born with enough middle fingers
I don’t need to choose a side
I better, better, better, better not say this
better, better, better, better not tell
I hate the hater, I’d rape the raper
I am the idiot who will not be himself
fuck it[Chorus]
Manson Incites the Satanic Nazi Youth to Kill
Some say that Manson has had fantasies in the past of his fans performing acts of violence for him, much like the followers of his inspiration, the original Charlie Manson, did. This video is from an unauthorized biography about Marilyn Manson, entitled “Demystifying the Devil”. A reporter says that Manson threatened to have his storm trooper-like fans attack him, because he published his name in a newspaper after he was arrested for exposing himself and simulating masturbation on stage. If Marilyn Manson fantasized about having his fans do violence to Michael Koretsky over this relatively minor incident, one has to wonder, if he does not fantasize even more about having his cult-like fans do violence against conservative Christians and society in general, whom he seems to hate much more passionately.
Manson Threatens to have Fans Kill Reporter
In this clip of a concert in Manchester in 2007, Manson makes a only slightly-veiled suggestion that his fans “beat the skull in” of a person who apparently threw a bottle during a concert, as bloodthirsty fans scream things like “lynch him” and “cut his motherf*&king head off”.
Manson Incites The Satanic Nazi Youth to Kill
If Manson will publicly threaten to have his fans do violence and even kill for him, it may be reasonable to ask, if he does not also sometimes use such an approach in his lyrics. Does he really seem like the type of person that would be terribly displeased, when his fans do violence and/or mass murder those whom he publicly professes to hate so passionately? Do his fans sound, in this clip, like the type of people who fantasize about violence? Does it seem that Manson encourages these fantasies?
Marilyn Manson T-Shirt
In “Organ Grinder”, Manson sings:
I am the face of piss and shit and sugar
I do a crooked little dance with my funny little monkey
What I want, what I want is just your children
I hate what I have become to escape what I hated being
Manson is indeed the “The Organ Grinder” he turns the crank and the kiddies dance to his tune. Some children and youths have already been sacrificed on this alter of hate, superstition and human degradation. Asa learned to dance to his tune and was ground up in the grinder of hate. Whoever released this photograph of Asa, has laid this boy’s lifeless body at Manson’s feet, as if to ask, whether there is still a soul or a heart in that psychopathic shell of a human being, known as “Marilyn Manson”.
Marilyn Manson – The Organ Grinder
Given the violent, hateful videos above, one wonders, if some of the victims of massacres of Christians and others by Marilyn Manson’s fans may not try to hold Manson, his record label and the distributor (EMI) legally responsible in a civil court for inciting violence against the public. The situation would seem to be similar to that when the neo-Nazi Tom Metzger was sued over the murder by one of Metzger’s followers of some African Americans in Portland, Oregon. Metzger was not directly involved in that case, either, and did not give an explicit order to murder. Apparently, he was found to have conspired to incite the violence by his anti-black hate tirades and the fact that he sent a person to Portland to indoctrinate the allied groups there. Asa Coon’s shirt and his statement that he worshipped Manson as “God”, would seem to connect Manson’s music to the massacre as a contributor for the purposes of a civil lawsuit. Also, there have been at least two incidents in which Manson tried to provoke his fans to or threatened to use his fans to harm others.
Song lyrics are protected in the US by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech. However, it, seems, if the band members can reasonably be expected to know that a certain type of song will likely cause their fans to carry out a crime such as a mass murder (because it has happened before and because there are an inordinate number of these crimes among the fans), it may be possible to bring a civil conspiracy charge against the band members and business partners, as has been done successfully with some hate groups, for example with Metzger and the White Aryan Resistance. The key seems to be that the band would be expected to know that a crime would result from their actions. The more often these school shootings and mass murders are connected to a particular band’s music, the more reasonable it is to expect that they should know their performances can incite such crimes (especially if the perpetrator is wearing a Manson shirt when he carries out the mass murder) and they and the label and distributor will eventually be held civilly liable for the mass murders or other crimes carried out by their fans.
Perhaps the families of the victims of the fans of these bands should consider pursuing a legal course against these bands analogous to how some have proceeded against hate groups, instead of inciting hate based on race they may be inciting hate based on religion or against “the System”, due to their own anti-religious and/or misanthropic, fascist-like political beliefs. This link below outlines the requirements for a successful suit against hate groups:
Southern Poverty Law Center – Courtroom Victories, Taking Hate Groups to Court.
Apparently, there have been three attempts at mass murder by Manson/Goth fans in the last year, in Colorado, Toronto and Cleveland. The murderer in Virginia also expresses sympathy for the Columbine murderers. Manson, the organ grinder, has named himself after a person that caused his followers to harm others and, as indicated above, there appears to be reason to believe he has threatened to incite or actually tried to incite his fans to harm others. Speech that can be reasonably expected to incite crimes against others is not constitutionally-protected speech. Marilyn Manson and business partners could at some point be in a somewhat shaky position with respect to the freedom of speech issue, certainly they should be, if more mass murders by Manson fans occur in the near future.
If this sort of crime happens repeatedly and at a much higher rate than among the general population, at some point Americans should demand that their Government protect innocent lives against those murderous maniacs that would use the media to promote crime. The best way is probably not to try to ban the content, but to have congress pass a law that makes the entertainment industry liable in blatant cases, where certain media content is repeatedly found to be closely associated with heinous crimes. In this way the entertainment companies will be forced to police themselves or finally be put out of business.
Does Today’s Youth Culture Effect Behavior?
Acknowledgement – Thanks to my virtual german friend, “Bastian” for suggesting the topic of this webpage and providing some examples of the Nazi symbolism used by Marilyn Manson in his performances. It is still a work in progress, but this website has become a joint endeavor, because many a number of others have also provided helpful information and criticism. The owner of this website, does not feel himself to be on a messianic mission to stop irresponsible entertainers all by himself, but just to try to inform as many as possible what this is really about. The biggest thanks will be due to those people that, once informed, will do their own perhaps small, individual efforts to curtail this kind of sickness as much as possible in our society. It may not be possible to eliminate it entirely, because this is related to age-old occult practices and other phenomena, but we do not have to accept it as mainstream as some would have us do.
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Dancing with Nazis 
i delt with manson in 92 in a situation that i will only lightly explain. mind you i was 290 pounds in size 34 jeans at the time, imagine the terminator jacket and all. yes manson was drugged up enough to think he could fight me or even hurt me. at the time i could lift a full sized beer keg over my head with no effort, anyways he had a ton of NS symbols tattooed on him and i bullied him about them using his own views against him. a few minutes later i over heard behind a door manson telling twiggy to “back me up!, if he is a good fighter” i wanna paste that guy! “then twiggy telling him harshly “i hopes he kicks your butt, it would take at least 10 or 12 guys to hurt him, all your nazi stuff is going to get you killed one day, i am not going to back you up against that beast, you deserve every thing he said it you, you racist f..k! i hope he beats your ass, finally some one has the cohones to tell you how stupid your ideas are, you’re lucky we make enough money or i would leave this crap band!”
Comment by kim — October 25, 2007 @ 11:18 am |
Danke, Basti. Interesse an der Manson-Webseite ist in den letzten Tagen gezoomt. Also, versuchte ich sie zu verbessern und zu vollenden. Jetzt scheint sie doch etwas mehr verständlich zu sein und besser zu fließen. Man könnte Volumen darüber schreiben, aber wahrscheinlich würde niemand so viel lesen und ich habe auch nicht so viele Zeit. Die Webseite ist schon vielleicht ein bisschen lang.
Comment by Tristan — December 27, 2007 @ 8:01 am |
Mike,
Interesting page and documentation. I just finished an unfruitful conversation with a Manson fan who claims Manson is brilliant, complex and misunderstood. This is all deeply meaningful ‘art’ as you surely have heard.
My position is that Manson’s art is purely antagonism to Christians and Christianity; to which he somewhat agreed and stated “But it worked didn’t it?” My rebuttal to this is Why? and what does this prove and how does this help in today’s world? Manson claims Christianity is intolerant (and I agree there are aspects of intolerance in ANY fundamentalist religion). I thought the ideal we were going for in America was Respect and Tolerance for all religions. (Manson can’t just change the channel and appreciate he is free to be a narcissist, and respect other peoples choices and that he has the freedom to do so… No, Manson is a “victim” because other channels exist). Manson’s entire tired shpiel is one of blaming others… Christians mainly and I found it interesting when asked to address the question of any responsibility in the Columbine shootings, immediately went into the mode of blaming everyone but himself. What a hypocrite. A Michael Moore documentary carried this hypocrisy further in a documentary by talking about how many people were killed that day by the military – and how this wasn’t the news, but Manson and Columbine were news. Interesting that Charlie Manson would go into a diatribe on ‘the environment’ when confronted with his accountability for his dysfunctional family.
Anyway, it occurred to me that since Brian has started a religion and he is the god of it, that it would be great fun, as artistic statement to confront it/him on his own art terms! Turn the tables around and write anti-Brain Manson lyrics and other blasphemies that denegrate and belittle the belief in Brian Manson – (but a little easier with regards to violent words – I don’t promote violence, but the ‘art’ would need to be recognizable parody). I now understand how he hates his real name being used and how he guards his image as icon. “Another day in the life of Brian Manson…. trying to outbid someone on E-bay for Hitler paraphernalia, or Dealing with his weight, criticism of his butt, or Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
Comment by Cassie — January 5, 2008 @ 4:59 pm |
Do I expect everyone to believe all of what I just said? Well… yes, yes I do. Let’s be honest here. You’ve got a blog that is specifically all about rooting out those you deem are “secret Nazis” or whatever, and that’s fine- I’d say it’s even admirable to an extent. On the other hand, and like images of the Virgin de Guadalupe on tortillas and oil slicks, if you look for something hard enough, you’re going to find it whether it’s actually there or not. To be fair, Manson himself has given you a generous ammount of material to work with.
Manson is a brilliant artist, and his work possess an insane amount of depth. Unlike other artists, Manson often does not leave much up to the imagination or interpretation of the viewer. He is extremely involved in every aspect of his work: lyrics, style, fashion, photography, videos, promotion, etc are all employed for a specific purpose to communicate specific ideas and he will never hesitate to talk about what those are. Nothing is “vague,” rather everything is extremely purposeful- but you either understand it or you don’t.
In your reply you mention Boyd Rice and Tom Metzger and their views. I don’t find this pertinent to Marilyn Manson. He was actually very close friends with Anton LaVey- (not Boyd Rice, although I’m sure they knew each other,) the actual founder of the Church of Satan, which is a pretty big tent in an of itself. That said, Manson intentionally distanced himself from the industrial scene as well as The Church of Satan as soon as he started working on his new album, Mechanical Animals, because it did not fit in with his latest transformation.
As far as Helnwein and Scientology goes… I’m sorry but I really see nothing there. I can’t really say I’m as well versed on Helnwein’s work as much as Manson’s so I can’t really speak to that, but all your connections look desperately tenuous to me. One thing I can say for sure is that Manson is not a Scientologist nor is he in any way interested in Scientology. There is no reason to believe this any more than there would be to think Oprah was for having Tom Cruise on her show, or that Sam Jackson might be since he was in a movie with John Travolta.
You say my explanations seem disingenuous, but I do not understand why they seem so to you. I wonder if it is simply because you don’t want to believe them. I’ve been a fan of Marilyn Manson since I saw a photograph of his Mechanical Animals persona, “Omega,” (naked, with breasts, and red hair) on a giant billboard in the middle of time square when I was a teenager ten years ago. Again, you ask me if I really expect you to believe everything I just said… all I can say is that the truth is right there in front of you if you’re really interested.
But you can’t be choosy. If you’re interested in accuracy you need the whole picture. From Antichrist Superstar to The Golden Age of Grotesque you’ve got seven years of songs, lyrics, interviews, live performances, music videos, art, diary entries, and photography to study. Luckily for you, Manson enjoys a diligent and loyal fan base who have extensively recorded every minute detail of his work and even his personal life up until this very moment. If you genuinely want to know whether Manson holds Nazi sympathies or not, that’s really the only way to find out- get educated. It’s probably more work than you’re willing to invest- more work than a Google image search at any rate.
The truth is, I don’t think you realized the significance of the figure you decided to explore for this little investigative entry. Maybe to you he’s just another potential secret Nazi, but to lifetime fans like myself… it’s just very troubling to see someone you respect and admire so much to be dealt with so superficially. I don’t feel embarrassed saying that Marilyn Manson is the single most inspiring person in my life (aside from people I know personally, like my parents). Who else is there, really? Politicians? Televangelists? My generation, unfortunately, has not been blessed with any iconic leaders truly worthy of admiration (hopefully, Barack Obama will change that).Check out Mansonusa, download the albums and the music videos, read the interviews, check out the photo gallery, look at concert footage. It’s not like there’s a risk of you getting brainwashed, right? All us Manson fans really want is for you to give our guy a fair shake before you start making judgments and throwing labels around, thanks.
Comment by from the Heirophant — January 21, 2008 @ 6:23 pm |
This article refers to Manson as a protégé, that is someone on whom that he had a significant influence.
http://www.cholermagazine.com/articles/boydrice.shtml
A notorious raconteur and prankster who, while exerting an influence over protégés like Marilyn Manson, has always longed for at least one moment in the sun,
Could Boyd Rice have donated his admitted Fascism to his protégé Marilyn Manson?
The reason why you sound disingenuous is because we see Manson prancing around with all this Nazi stuff as if he has a fascination with it and you tell us we should believe some convoluted cock-and-bull story about how he is rebelling against the fascism of the Church or the Government or something to that effect, while at the same time he is a minister in a faschoid organization like the Church of Satan, and names himself after a Hitler admirer and mass murderer. It doesn’t really matter, if he is a fascist or Nazi or not. The point is that it looks like he is a fascist/Nazi, especially when he is a minister in a group that purports to believe in some concepts that we pretty central to Hitler’s beliefs. His concerts resemble the KKK rallies that Boyd Rice talked about in the Nazi interview, with him bellowing about “niggers” and burning crosses and strutting about the stage in a Nazi getup, surrounded by a Nazi setting. To believe you all we have to do is suspend all of our natural senses and turn our brains off. It is all some esoteric art thing that we couldn’t possibly understand. The purpose of this website is just to point out where connections to Nazism may be made, because it seems many of his fans and others do not know enough about Nazism to make the connections themselves.
Poor Brian Warner, whenever someone criticizes him, he and his fans always rush to paint him as the victim and a misunderstood genius. Certainly, he was a great inspiration to kids like Asa Coon. The reason there seems to be something more there to the relationship between Gottfried Helnwein and Marilyn Manson is that they both seem to revel in Nazism, but as soon as someone says something critical about it they both fall into the victim mode. They have a similar mode of operation. How dare anyone question the moral position of people that seem to have a sick fascination with Nazism? It’s always the other people that are the Nazis. We are supposed to accept that at face value without question, even though they are the ones that seem to always be wallowing in Nazism.
Comment by Tristan — January 21, 2008 @ 8:12 pm |
Not a “cock and bull” story, but simply my interpretation of his work as a fan very well-versed on the subject. Being a Satanist is not in any way the same as being a Nazi. In America, at any rate, the two groups don’t see a lot of cross over- at least not in the Satanist side of things. Incidentally, Marilyn Manson happens to be neither. He is not an active Satanist any more than he’s actively a woman simply because he donned prosthetic breasts at a time. It is persona.
Nobody is asking you to take anything at face value. On the contrary I strongly invite you to investigate as deeply as you can. I invited you to look at the entire picture, but you’ve chosen to only look at one facet of an incomplete picture- handpicking whatever you’d like to focus on and then drawing an inaccurate image from an intentionally limited perspective. Some people are interested in the truth, and others are only interested in focusing on the items that reinforce their preconceptions.
As far as Asa Coon goes- not a real fan, but someone who adopted Marilyn Manson after he was well on his way to where he was going to go. The original school shooters weren’t fans either, but because they have been claimed as such, Manson has become continuously tied to that archetype. Their opinions on his music are also widely available for anyone willing to look at the material for themselves.
Comment by from the Heirophant — January 21, 2008 @ 9:45 pm |
The Church of Satan says that they do not believe in Satan as a being, but rather the principle “Might makes Right”. In other words, they seem to believe in a form of Social Darwanism. The statement by Boyd, who is a member, in the “Total War” video that was just added is very Hitleresque.
Matthew Murray, who killed two Christians at a shelter and attacked the Mega-Church in Colorado, was said to have been a Manson fan and it was said that he did a performance of a Manson song before a Church group in a way that people felt threatended.
Asa Coon believed that Marilyn Manson was his God. Wonder how he could have gotten that idea? It is just perfect for the Manson fans to give all of the blame to the 14 year old boy and not take any responsibility for themselves that his belief in Manson and his violent, misanthropic lyrics may have contributed to the boy’s problem. Oh well, one would not expect anything else. Manson is always the victim.
Anyway this thread is over. It does not seem to be leading anywhere.
Comment by Tristan — January 21, 2008 @ 11:03 pm |
well… i used to be a manson fan, and i found that i was more depressed when i listened to his music… him and silverchairs “suicidal dreams”… but now i’m happy… idk if it was the switch of music, or the much more likely the 3 months i spent in a mental institution for attempted suicide… hmmm… idk… i guess i’m living proof that manson is depressing…
Comment by Mystery — January 23, 2008 @ 10:14 pm |
Hi Mystery Man, glad you are doing better. Manson can be pretty depressing. There was a series of lawsuits in the 80’s that charged that certain rock groups caused teenagers to commit suicide. Apparently, none of them were successful. The most famous was probably Vance vs. Judas Priest that charged that two teenagers attempted suicide because they listened to the Judas Priest song “Better than You, Better by Me” The suits failed, apparently, because there were no explicit instructions to commit suicide and the bands didn’t have a motivation to have their fans kill themselves. There is a movie in the Internet about this case:
Dream Decievers – The Story of James Vance
It could be a little different with Manson, because he does give fairly explicit instructions in songs like “Get your Gun” and “Lunchbox”. His potential motivations of misanthropic hate for Christians and those he considers “bullies” is also fairly well known. Manson’s case may be more comparable to a lawsuit against Nazi leader Tom Metzger, who was successfully sued by a civil rights group, because they said that he incited someone that he didn’t even know with his Nazi rhetoric against minorities to kill a minority member in Portland. Here is an article about the wrongful death suit against Metzger:
Wrongful Death Lawsuit against Metzger/WAR
Comment by Tristan — January 24, 2008 @ 7:35 am |
I think you guys are wrong for showing that picture of Asa! That’s an injustice! And it’s not right! I think you should take it down immediately!
Comment by Meghan Smith — January 24, 2008 @ 8:37 am |
Sorry Meghan. It is a very horrible photo, I know. However, it shows the impact than Marilyn Manson can have on people and also the t-shirt documents the connection to Manson, which some Manson Fans do not want to believe. For those reasons, it seems important for people to be able to see it. It has not being posted for reasons of morbid interest. Very sincere apologies, though, to the family of Asa and to the other people involved, such as the employees and students of the Cleveland School District, who it may cause even more pain. It is clear that they all have suffered so much already.
Comment by Tristan — January 24, 2008 @ 9:05 am |
The photo of Asa Coon is a police shot? Who owns the copyright? Redoing my book with newer incidents as *SCHOOL SHOOTINGS – What Every Parent and Educator Needs to Know to Protect Our Children* (Kensington Press, Sept. 2008)
Comment by Joe Lieberman — February 8, 2008 @ 12:17 pm |
I would guess that no one owns the copyright and it is in the public domain. I don’t think it is an official police photo. According to what I have read an officer took the photo with a cell phone camera and then sent it to people that posted it in the Internet.
You may want to contact that officer to see if there is a copyright. I believe the policeman may have wanted the photo to be public to show the connection to Marilyn Manson. If it his personal photo, which it sounds as if it is, I doubt that he would want to claim a copyright. I suppose the Cleveland Police Department may be able to claim a copyright. However, no one has contacted me complaining that the photo is copyrighted. Not sure anyone can assert a copyright after it has been distributed like that.
Comment by Tristan — February 8, 2008 @ 1:47 pm |
Was ist das für eine Uniform?
Wehrmacht oder SS?
Das ist der ehemalige Keyboarder, der auch Mansaon verklagt hat weil er das Geld lieber für Nazi Sachen als für seine Band ausgegeben hat.
Comment by Basti — February 9, 2008 @ 2:38 pm |
The cut looks more like a British uniform, but the two lines on the lapel suggest a Wehrmacht uniform. Here’s another of our wannabe Nazis, Tom Cruise, in a Wehrmacht uniform. You can see the difference in the lapel. The Wehrmacht Uniform has a collar and not a lapel.
They just want to suggest something Nazi. It doesn’t have to be exact. M. Manson probably tells the band what to wear. I doubt that the other band members had a lot of choice about it. Could be infuriating to have to wear Nazi gear and on top of that Manson spends all the band’s money on Nazi memorabilia and human relics.
Comment by Tristan — February 9, 2008 @ 5:04 pm |
Hail to Marilyn Manson!
Comment by Whos your daddy? — February 13, 2008 @ 9:07 am |
Is “Hail Marilyn Manson” the preferred greeting among Manson-Followers, or is “Heil Marilyn Manson” also acceptable? It probably depends on your nationality?
Comment by Tristan — February 13, 2008 @ 10:25 am |
It’s “good” to see that Boyd Rice (and another ex-Satanist band, the group Current 93) have finally been outed on You Tube as blatant Nazis. There’s a good deal of avant-Nazism in the experimental music scene, passively and sometimes knowingly / actively promoted by magazines like The Wire. One band that has been trying to bury their Nazi sympathies is the group Whitehouse – a really godawful experimental music group whose members produced projects like a compilation cassette called “White Power”, a magazine feature describing human experiments in concentration camps as “Triumphs of Nazism”, and tracks like “Viking Section”, “New Britain” (they’re from the UK), “Right to Kill” and “Buchenwald” (named after a concentration camp) etc.
The purpose of posting this message is not to promote these idiots but to draw attention to information about them that they themselves are constantly trying to censor, and particularly to expose their supporters in the mainstream music media. Specific excuses that The Wire magazine have made in print for giving coverage to these idiots is that their Nazism is “ironic” and “humor”, and that criticising their statements is “not fair”.
Comment by Anti Fascist — February 13, 2008 @ 1:55 pm |
Thanks Antifa. Will check it out. Avant-Nazi is a good name for the phenomenon.
Comment by Tristan — February 13, 2008 @ 3:02 pm |
Marilyn Manson looks more like a Jewish person. Charlie Manson, being short in height and weird in looks is anything but an Aryan. Hitler, Geobles, and most other top Nazi guys also did not look like a pure Aryan German either! So, who the hell were or are these guys really?
Comment by Daorg — March 8, 2008 @ 1:32 am |
They are just extreme egomaniacs and/or on drugs. They just don’t perceive themselves the same way most other people perceive them. Why in the World would such people think they should be the the Masters of the World or the Master Race or the Master of whatever. Himmler, Hitler, Goebbels, Goering, Charles Manson, Marilyn Manson?!!
The Nazis and others were/are right in that it is technically possible to breed humans like cattle to produce a better breed. The problem is, however, that humans can not be objective about the selection process. Everyone would want to be the breeding stock. For that reason it is much better for nature to take its course and to allow individuals to decide for themselves with whom they want to reproduce, as most people naturally recognize is correct from the religious ethics that mankind has developed over the last few thousand years. For individuals to say you should forget everything you have learned from society and I will tell you what is morally “right” and “wrong” is maniacal. They ARE maniacs. Moral ethics have evolved in the collective consciousness of many millions of people over thousands of years. One person, one group or even one generation can not re-invent it forever, although they may have a big impact for some relatively short period of time, relative to human history. Civilization has always been based on some kind of religious ethic. It is better for the greater good to keep some or our more individual bestial instincts in check. Those, like Hitler, that want to set the beast in man completely free, would just destroy civilization. Hope that makes sense and does not sound too grandiose.
Comment by Tristan — March 8, 2008 @ 7:12 am |
Hey everyone…I was really fuckin´ pissed when I read all of this bull shit. First of all, Mr.Manson is NOT does not believe in Nazi ideals or anything like it. He is a respectable, unique man that knows how to put on a really god damn good show. I don´t believe in Jesus Christ myself, I think he was some sort of prep in his age… well, my point is….THIS IS THE NEW SHIT IS NOT OF ANY RELE-FUCKING-VANCE TO MR.MANSON BEING OF NAZI APPEALS! theyre just lyrics people—OMG! HES TALKING ABOUT NEW SONGS WITH NEW THINGS TO TALK ABOUT…NOT ABOUT NAZIS? WATTAFUCK! YOU ARE SUCH A LOSER! WHO THE HELL TRIES TO FIND SOMETHING WHERE THE IS NOTHING AT ALL! YOU! RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT! AAAAAAAGH! IT pisses me off that so many people make up rumors about my fuckin idol…. 😦 its really annoying ok? so STOP YOU FUCKING DIP-SHIT! AAAAARGH!
btw-im a fuckin 15 year old….and there´s a lot wrong with me but i can take it—people look at me normal…ive got many asom friends that are catholic—AND I DON´T FUCKING KILL EM DO I? THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP!!1
reconsider you fucker….
NewModel#15
Comment by Victor — March 14, 2008 @ 12:54 pm |
Victor, thanks for the message. I am sure that it gives everyone new confidence in Mr. Manson’s performances and their effect on his young fans.
Comment by Tristan — March 16, 2008 @ 2:32 pm |
All the postings show how religion has ruined all aspects of civilization. All major wars and conflicts can be linked to religion, and mostly christianity. Religion was created to bring order to society and to insight fear into the minds of all. What happens when people are tired of being afraid?
All Manson does is portray the hypocrisy of all things civilized in this pathetic world we all live in. I would suggest that we all just go about our day and take care of ourselves.
One more thing….to all of the Manson fans out their, use some intelligence when posting commenting. One thing the Manson has taught me and should have taught you was to use your brain.
Comment by ShockTroop — April 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm |
One more thing….to all of the Manson fans out their, use some intelligence when posting commenting. One thing the Manson has taught me and should have taught you was to use your brain.
Comment by ShockTroop — April 22, 2008 @ 8:02 pm |
It’s easy to condemn everything without having to accept any responsibility for yourself. It is also easy to make sweeping generalizations about history, when it’s pretty obvious that you haven’t studied history and don’t know any history. It’s easy to talk about intelligence, when you don’t have intelligence. If you just sit around and complain and accept someone like Marilyn Manson as your role model, then you will have a pretty messed up life, but it won’t be the World’s fault, it will be your fault. Other people that accept responsibility for themselves and are willing to work for something will have the life that you missed. No one can give you a good life, you have to make it yourself instead of just sitting around and whining your entire life. If you think religion is the cause of all evil, maybe you should move to North Korea, where they have an atheist system?
Comment by Tristan — April 22, 2008 @ 10:37 pm |
Nachdem Mansons bester Freund und ehemaliger Songwriter und Bassspieler Twiggy Ramirez wieder zur Band gestoßen ist, hat Manson verkündet, dass das neue Album wie Antichrist Superstar werden soll.
Ich bin gespannt. Vielleicht sehen wir wieder die Band Marilyn Manson mit Nazi-Symbolen wie es noch 1996/1997 war.
Du wirst dann wohl neues Material für deine Website bekommen.
Gruß Bastian
Comment by Basti — April 23, 2008 @ 9:59 am |
Hallo Basti, bin frohe, das du wieder da bist. Glaubte, das ich dich gestört hatte. Danke für das Tipp. Ich glaube das letzte Album und Tour war nicht so sehr erfolgreich. Er will offenbar zu das zurückkehren, was früher besser geklappt hat. Auch wird er immer älter. Wenn er seinen Träum erfüllen und die Apokalypse und Antichrist voranbringen will, hat er nicht so viel Zeit mehr. Er braucht sich tüchtiger anzustreben.
Comment by Tristan — April 23, 2008 @ 8:17 pm |
So schnell lass ich mich nicht verärgern. 😉
Außerdem hast du doch gar nichts getan was mich stören könnte.
ICh finde wenn man von Marilyn Manson redet, dann muss man sich auch die Band marilyn Manson ansehen. Nachdem Twiggy Ramirez 2002 die Band verließ, änderte sich der komplette Stil der Band.
Jetzt wo er wieder da ist will er wieder so werden wie früher. Der Ex-Keyboarder Madonna Wayne Gacy trug auf der Bühne gerne Wehrmachtsanzüge und war genauso wie Manson vom 3. Reich fasziniert.
Comment by Basti — April 24, 2008 @ 9:55 am |
Hallo Basti, danke, ich werde das tun so bald ich Zeit habe. Hoffentlich hast Du die Clips von den Metzger-Interviews von Boyd Rice und Nicholas Schreck gesehen. Für mich waren sie sehr Aufschlußreich, weil sie reden mit einem Top-Nazi der US darüber, wie man eine gleich-gesinnte Jugend-Bewegung schaffen könnten. Und es scheint sie haben das gewissermaßen mit die Industrial- Metal- und Goth-Fans gemacht, ob die Fans alle wissen dass sie das Ziel der subtilen satanischen Nazi-Propaganda sind oder nicht.
Nazi Leader, Metzger, Interviews Boyd Rice
Metzger Interviews Radio Werewolf
Metzger Interviews Nicholas Schreck of Radio Werewolf
Comment by Tristan — April 26, 2008 @ 7:50 am |
Nun, mein Englisch ist nicht das beste, aber ich werde wohl die wichtigsten Sachen rausgehört haben 😉
Comment by Basti — April 28, 2008 @ 5:14 am |
what hell is your goddamn problem? Marilyn Manson is an artist that yes, is satanic, and yes is nazi. but he may tell you to kill your parents, friends, or teachers, but thats only a suggestion for the problem. by no means are you not in control of your own actions. this page is too one sided. i understand you want to force religion down peoples mouth, so have fun with that. but don’t fuck with peoples heads. Manson’s not. ~Lestate
p.s. hail Satan.
if you have any problem with what i said, Blackhell@myspace.com come bitch to me.
Comment by Lestate — April 30, 2008 @ 4:49 pm |
A lot of people seem to misunderstand the limitations on freedom of speech. Manson has the right to say anything he wants including to suggest that his fans mass murder dozens of people be it their parents, teachers, Christians or others. However, others still have the right to criticize MM’s speech. People who believe Manson has caused them harm, can file suit against him for it. If it can be found in a court of law that Manson willingly contributed to the murder of others, he and the distributors of his music could very well be held legally responsible for those deaths. People are also not obligated to distribute or buy his albums or rent him space for concerts.
Tom Metzger, a Nazi Leader, was sued for every penny he had some years back, because he suggested to a person that another group in Oregon should “get tough” with the minorities there and a black person was subsequently killed by that group, because of it.
You know that Manson is serious, but most people don’t. This site provides some hints to people that Manson IS serious. There are also many other entertainers that are doing similar things in the media. Manson is just the most obvious one. This seems to be a significant factor that contributes to the many occult and copycat mass murders that have been occuring across the country in recent years. Some young, disturbed people that are often immersed in occult beliefs pick up the “suggestions” of these entertainers and sometimes act on them. Many innocent people have died. Much worse is very likely yet to come. The recent shooter in Colorado — another reported Manson fan — fully intended to massmurder hundreds of Christians during a church service until he was shot by a security guard. Manson should have many souls to use as slaves in the afterlife.
Comment by Tristan — April 30, 2008 @ 7:12 pm |
Basti, Irgendwie habe ich damals deine Nachricht über “The Beautiful People” nicht völlig verstanden. Das ist ein Loblied pur von Sozial Darwinismus und Faschismus”. Habe das Lied gerade eingebettet.
Comment by Tristan — May 4, 2008 @ 7:06 pm |
Meiner Meinung nach hat er schon eine Ähnlichkeit mit Himmler.
Oder das: http://www.manson-valley.de/fotogalerie/band/images/acss/acss_08.jpg
Der links neben Manson, Ginger Fish und der rechts neben Manson, Madonna Wayne Gacy sehen schon sehr rechts aus.
Comment by Basti — May 5, 2008 @ 11:50 am |
Es scheint nicht nur Provokation zu sein. Sie versuchen eine Naziähnliche Mentalität unter ihren Fans zu fördern. Boyd Rice und Nikolas Schreck waren Vorgänger und Mentoren von Marilyn Manson und sie sprachen mit einem Top-Nazi, Tom Metzger, in den gesagten Clips darüber, wie man ein „arisches Subkultur“ mit industrielle und gotische Musik fordern können. Es gibt eine Menge von Bands, die Ähnliches machen, ob sie klassische Nazis zu sein scheinen, oder nicht. Sie sind nur nicht ganz offen darüber, weil sie im „Mainstream“ bleiben wollen, damit sie mehr Jugendlichen erreichen können und auch mehr Kohle machen können. Die meiste Leute aber ahnen das nur nicht und vielleicht wollen das auch nicht ahnen. Andere Entertainer machen das auch. Sehe „Natural Born Killers“ von Oliver Stone, zum Beispiel. Es gibt darin viele Anspielungen an den Hitler-Fan, Charlie Manson, und Satanismus, wenn man Bescheid weißt. Er war ein Lieblingsfilm von den Columbine-Killers.
Comment by Tristan — May 5, 2008 @ 7:59 pm |
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/
Falls du diese Site noch nicht kennst.
Sie ist recht interressant und es gibt Passagen die auch dich interressieren sollten 😉 “Fascism in Expressionism”
Comment by Basti — May 9, 2008 @ 1:35 pm |
Eins versteh ich nicht. Vielleicht kannst du mir dabei helfen.
Wie ich schon mal geschrieben habe, ist mein English nicht gerade das beste.
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/theOccult?PHPSESSID=7bbfc4537370c8204ad041f830ca1645
Ich versteh die Bedeutung des “Cross of Lorraine” nicht.
Auch versteh ich die Bedeutung des Kreuzes für Manson und Rice nicht.
Comment by Basti — May 12, 2008 @ 10:41 am |
Hallo Basti, Ich war in dem letzten 8 Tage unterwegs und habe keine Zeit im Moment ausführlicher to antworten. Aber Manson und Boyd Rice scheint das von Anton Lavey bekommen zu haben. Lavey hat die „Church of Satan“ gegründet. Er benutzte das als Wappensymbol, von wegen die okkulte Bedeutung des Symbols. Aleister Crowley, die Freimauer und die „Knights Templar“ sollen dieses Symbol auch angewendet habe.
http://www.thevesselofgod.com/crosslorraine.html
Aleister Crowley inspirierte viel von dem Satanismus von heute. Der Ritterorden Templar sollen Satanisten der Mittelalter gewesen sein haben. Der König von Frankenreich haben die leitende Ordenritter als Teufelverehrer verbrannt. Einige Leute sagen dass sie kein Satanisten waren, dass der König schuldete ihnen nur Geld und es war leichter sie als Teufelverehrer zu verbrennen, als das Geld zurückzuzahlen. Auf jeden Fall Levey identifizierte sich mit dem Ritterorden Templar und war auch viel von Crowley beeinflußt. Deswegen benutzt er das Symbol, glaube ich.
Natürlich ist das auch ein Wappensymbol von einigen europäischen Herrenrassen. Ich glaube, gewisse Faschisten in Osteuropa haben den Kreuz von Lothringen auch als Wappensymbol benutzt. Rice und auch Lavey, denke ich, laßt sich als Faschisten beschrieben und ist selbstverständlich, dass die Philosophie der Church of Satan ziemlich Faschistisch ist.
Comment by Tristan — May 12, 2008 @ 9:11 pm |
So… This whole thing is just about saying Manson’s a freak? Well for X&*# sake, it’s not like we didn’t already know that o_O;
Comment by Tomás — May 15, 2008 @ 2:59 am |
Everyone knows M.M. is strange, but many people don’t know that there is sometimes coherency to his message and especially that there is a (satanic) Nazi theme to his performances. Without knowing some background, most people don’t “get it” and M.M. himself has said that most people don’t understand what he is doing. Many people may also not know that there is some coherency to his satanism as well and that it is not just some sort make-believe, artistic rendering of satanism. Therefore this website attempts to give people — who may or may not be M.M. fans — an idea what he is trying to do. Just because someone is a “freak” doesn’t mean that you should not be aware of what he is doing, rather the opposite. People should be especially aware of what “freaks” are doing. Sometimes they have an impact.
Comment by Tristan — May 15, 2008 @ 7:50 am |
@Basti, Ich war schon von der Webseite (Nachtkabarett) bewußt. Aber hatte die ganze Webseite nicht gelesen oder es ist vielleicht kürzlich umgebaut. Auf jeden Fall bekam ein paar weitere Bilder davon, danke. Es steht viel darin über Begriffe von Aleister Crowley, der geistliche Opa von vielen heutigen Satanisten. Aleister Crowley war Fan des Faschismus und Nazismus. Er hat sein „Tempel von Thelema“ in Sizilien gestartet. Aber war von Mussolini hinausgeschmissen, weil es Gerüchte über Orgien, Sex mit Tieren und Menschenopferung gab. Er wollte auch mit den Nazis als Spion arbeiten, aber die Nazis wollten ihn auch nicht. Obwohl Nazismus ist auch von der Okkulte hervorgekommen, Hitler wollte kein konkurrierende Ideen haben, besonders von so ein Spinner wie Crowley.
Ungefahr als die Nazis den Niederlag in Stalingrad erlitten hatten und das enorme Bombenkampagne von Deutschland begann, wurde die Agrape Loge von Crowley’s Ordo Templis Orientis (OTO) in Los Angeles eröffnet, von Jack Parsons, gefuehrt. Als Hitler sein Untergang zu erfahren begann, gab es schon Leute in Los Angeles, die darüber grübelten, wie sie es besser machen könnten, außer Jack Parsons, auch sein Kumpel L. Ron Hubbard, Gründer von Scientology. Von der Agape Loge hat viele Satanismus in Kalifornien hervorgerufen. Die Kirche von Satan und „Process Church von the Final Judgement“ sowie andere satanische Gruppen bekamen viele ihrer Ideologie von dem OTO. Daher kommt M.M’s Faszinierung mit Nazismus und Faschismus und auch seine Faszinierung mit der Apokalypse. Vielleicht wiederhole ich mich hier aber. Das alles steht wohl in der Webseite oben. Auf jeden Fall gab es eine Menge, die ernsthaft an diese ursprüngliche OTO-Begriffe glauben und ich denke M. Manson, sowie ein Menge von andere Hollywood-Entertainer auch ernst sind. Das ist für sie kein Spiel, wie so viele Leute glauben möchten. Ich habe das früher auch nicht verstanden, bis ich begann, nach deiner Empfehlung M.M. ein bißchen genauer anzugucken.
Übrigens habe vor ein paar Woche den Film „Metropolis“ (1927) von Fritz Lang gesehen. Habe vorher gedachte, dass der Film geht um der Modernisierung aber in Wirklichkeit geht es um der Apokalypse. Fritz Lange vorhersagte in einer Weise, was in den nächste Jahrzehnte geschehen würde. Man kann wohl der Roboter mit M.M. vergleichen und der Hexenmeister ist eine Kombination von Boyd Rice, Helnwein, und andere. Kuck mal an, wenn du Interesse und Zeit hast und ihn nicht schon gesehen hast. Die gleiche Geschichte steht darin, nur Metropolis hat „Happy Ending“ anders als ZWK.
Comment by Tristan — May 18, 2008 @ 8:18 am |
Well, I could prove Mother Theresa was a nazi satanist if I want… I guess this makes you happy, but believe me, it convinces no one about anything regarding Marilyn Manson, just tells a lot about your paranoid-self, so enjoy!
Comment by Juan — May 23, 2008 @ 12:14 am |
Would be interesting to see the website that shows Mother Teresa was as big a fan of Hitler and Fascism as M. Manson is. It is pretty clear that the hard-core, faschoid Goth fans who are part of Manson’s junior Nazi Youth Movement are not going to change their minds. However, MM depends a lot for his revenue-generation on more casual fans that don’t know this background information. Those minds can probably be changed. Recently, it seems they have been deserting him in droves. His last record didn’t do as well as expected and the concert tour was also pretty much a flop, from what I understand.
Comment by Tristan — May 23, 2008 @ 9:43 am |
Now, here’s our take regarding Brian Warner a.k.a.: Marilyn Manson.
We see him as an UNSERIOUS person who takes his appearance seriously. If his fans take him seriously, it’s their problem. If you’re to ask us, we share a number of sentiments against Christian Fund-a-mentalists especially in America, but we won’t waste much time with Marilyn Manson and his “allegories”. He’s just as vapid as the society he criticizes.
And by the way, since you’ve made mention about Eugenics. We beg to disagree on your demonization of the term. There is always a POSITIVE and NEGATIVE mode of Eugenics. Remember, even the Jewish institution Dor Yeshorim (which means “Upright Generations” as stated in Psalms 112:2) used Eugenic practices in order to prevent deaths by Tay-Sachs disease among children from Jewish communities. So stop portraying Eugenics as “evil”.
Comment by The Accused — May 24, 2008 @ 6:25 am |
If his fans take him seriously and act on his insinuations, by shooting a bunch of people or hacking up a nun — which has happened already — most people would say it is not just the fans’ problem.
Comment by Tristan — May 24, 2008 @ 9:16 am |
Holy #&$#… That was EPIC.
Comment by UZUMAKI — May 25, 2008 @ 5:41 am |
I find your article very entertaining. I feel the need to remind you.. Everyone has free will. I’m a Manson fan and am I out praising Hitler and killing? No. Instead I’m a honor student working on getting into college and volunteering in my spare time when I don’t work. Yes Manson is my favorite singer. I love his music because its helps me get through my day. Sometimes using your fist and not your mouth gets the job done quicker. When people will not listen to me and refuse to even try a suggestion.. Actions speak louder than words. This could mean a possibility of things from physical violence to walking away. My makeup is pale my nails are black, my body is pierced and my hair is manic panic. Does this make me a bad person? Does the Manson concert shirt I wear with pride make me a horrible jew hater? God lord I hope not. That’s a very narrow minded view. To paint a sea of fans as idiots who listen and do anything one person says. I’m insulted you think I could be a little nazi just because I enjoy a man’s music.
It is heart breaking to see those kids in Manson shirts after they did a horrible deed. But may I ask where their parents are? Where was their friends? Where was that one person who saw them noticed how depressed they were? Where were the adults? Did no one see the kids suffering and step in to help them? No instead mommy and daddy bought that kid more Manson music and merchandise feeding into their dillusions of graduer if they “carried Mason’s plan”. Where the hell did these kids get the guns? Did Manson go out and buy the gun, load the bullets, then place it in the sniveling bastards hand and pull the trigger? No some fucked up kid who NEEDED HELP decided he was going to take down every mother fucker he could before ending it himself.
Manson is getting older now, his shows aren’t what they used to be. In my opinion he’s hit a midlife crisis. His girlfriend is barley 20 right now. Honestly I think he’s realizing his time is ending. Instead he’s focused on a remake of Alice and Wonderland and working with Twiggy to create a “hard hitting album”. Pardon me for being so cynical.. But Manson claims his next album will be “hard” and “extreme” He fell through last time. His music stopped being so mind blowing after Mechanical Animals. I still enjoy his music. I will continue to buy his shirts. Hell I will go to his next concert. Why?
He brought me out of my depression. I was depressed for so long, staying home a lot. Just in bed wanting to hurt myself. I began to play Manson a lot more. He was always a singer in the background of my life, nothing of worship. But then I just began to listen to sAINT and Vodevil everyday. It made me feel better. His music made me realize.. everyone is full of bull shit. SO why the fuck should I let their bull shit keep me down? Instead I should rise with the rest and keep my stance ready to face them. My parents noticed I was depressed but they refused to do anything about it. They were foolish and figured I’d grow out of it. Instead my mother wanted to bother me about dating boys and my father.. he was happy to remain ignorant. I will continue on with my life. I will be the best I can be. I will go to college write my novels and enjoy his music knowing it inspired me to get out of my bed and not kill myself.
For everyone one insane fan who is misunderstanding his music, there is 5 of me who shakes their head in disgust at the ignorant fan who knows nothing.
Comment by Hydra — May 25, 2008 @ 8:48 am |
Hydra, even Hilter helped some people and had followers that turned out okay. Even the Pope was at one time a Hitler Youth. However, whether Manson has fans that do okay is not the issue. The issue is whether the cult-like mentality that Manson tries to create among his fans is harmful to some of his fans and to non-fans. When so many young fans of Manson’s music and this type of music commit horrendous crimes such as chopping up nuns and mass murders, one has to ask why? Parents can’t be responsible for everything and there will always be broken families. That does not mean that it is okay for someone like Manson to throw gasoline on the fire. Just because you personally have not committed a mass murder or chopped up a nun yet is not a convincing recommendation for Manson. It seems doubtful that the wannabe Beast of the Biblical Book of Revelations will age gracefully. His next album may flop worse than the last one did. What he can do that is more extreme that what he has already done, sacrifice a Christian on stage?
Comment by Tristan — May 25, 2008 @ 11:03 am |
Manson uses this mob mentality in his favor to sell records. I don’t understand why people think he wants his fans to go out and commit murder. Like any celebrity he may have been in it for the freedom of expression but now its all about the cash.
I stand by the fact he’s getting older and as you may or may not have seen in his latest shows.. he’s lacking in the shock department. Everyone knows who he is now and what he stands for, how can flashing a crowd gain him any more sales? His prime time is ending.
Comment by Hydra — May 26, 2008 @ 1:06 pm |
Maybe it’s because he named himself after a mass murdrer and puts numerous things in his performances that suggest violence, and also that an inordinate number of his fans commit mass murders. Probably for these subtil reasons and because Manson continues to do this sort of thing and does not effectively distance himself from it, some people may well think that Manson wants his fans to commit violent acts. If he did not want them to do it, one might reasonably expect that Manson would accept some responsibility and stop putting these violent references in his performances. I suppose it is too much to expect that people might actually concern themselves with the possibility that they may be contributing to the death of others. Also, he has directly threatened to have his fans do violence to people, such as here:
Manson incites Fans to Kill Heckler/Bottle Thrower at Concert
Do his fans at this concert seem like the nice people that you claim to be? Strange that so many of his fans say he has had a good effect on their lives, but then deny any possibility at all that he can have a bad effect on others, especially those that are young and that may be already disturbed.
Comment by Tristan — May 26, 2008 @ 1:18 pm |
F^%$ off!! Get A LIFE LOSER!!! Whome ever put this “BOGUS-ASS” site together has waaaay too much time on their hands and need to get over the fact that Marilyn Manson is a musician and artist NOT the godamn antichrist!! You are a sad individual who appenently never took the time to actually “Listen” to Manson’s music. Instead you spend so much time trying to dissect his music to find MEANINGLESS clues…lol…your pathetic! They should shut this site down and burn you at the stake like a witch for spreading lies to people. YOU christians are the devil that you created. GROW UP!
Comment by Kris — May 28, 2008 @ 6:28 am |
No one said Manson was the Antichrist. It was just pointed out that Manson referred to himself as the “Hydra” in Antichrist Superstar. “Hydra” has been used to mean the biblical Beast 666 of Revelations. The Beast comes before the Antichrist in Revelations and Manson announces in the same song that the Antichrist is coming shortly. I don’t think Manson is the Beast or the Antichrist, just cuckoo. By the way Hitler, Goebbels and Charlie Manson were also all artists, not sure that is any excuse.
Comment by Tristan — May 28, 2008 @ 5:33 pm |
it looks like alot of research,
and you may be right.
however; manson has done the opposite of
making people stay silent, and work slave jobs,
if you watch his interview he tells people to think for themselves, he insults people because he thinks they are stupid and they probably are.
he makes you question just what the hell is going on in our messed up world.
(Profane ranting deleted)
anyway, manson does seem like the type to be
one of the evil F$%k
but i can tell you 2 things
1: manson is two faced,
he appears grotesque and obscene but he is
realy a heartbroken, screwed up man
with alot of painfull memories.
2: “WAR” as enscribed on charles manson’s
victim, the “W” is realy a freemason symbol.
Comment by gamma_freak — June 3, 2008 @ 12:14 am |
So the “W” in war does look like the symbol of the Freemasons. However, lots of mystical organizations have appropriated the symbolism of the Freemasons. My understanding is that freemasonry promotes ties between the different religions and since it wanted to be religion-neutral uses a lot of very old mystical symbols and rituals from traditions other than Christianity. Since it is a repository of a lot of non-Christian mystical tradtions a lot of other people have borrowed symbols and rituals from it. The Mormons use a lot from Freemasonry. Crowley’s Ordo Templis Orientis (OTO, latin for the Order of New Templars) and, I believe the Golden Dawn, also came from Freemansonry. Manson probably got the symbol via the OTO, Crowley’s “satanic” group, probably via the Process Church. A symbol means what you want it to mean. Manson probably just wanted to insert a little witchiness in his apocalyptic message, carved on LaBianca’s torso.
As for your comment that we are like pre-Nazi Germany. The analogy I see that is like pre-Nazi Germany is the boom in occult beliefs, such as people like Manson try to foster among young people. The Nazis believed in a naive, pseudo-scientific, mystical occult myth of the aryan Superman. They thought that they could cause Mankind to go to the next evolutionary step, by killing all the inferior people, including inferior Germans. If you listen to what Manson and other associates like Boyd Rice and Nikolas Schreck say, they have similar ideas. Manson says that stupid people shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce, for example. This kind of idea is similar to Nazism, although they are not directing it just at the Jews. If you are very familiar with how the Nazis think, you can easily recognize some of their major principles in Manson’s ideas. Another example, is that the Nazis wanted to neutralize the influence of parents on Nazi youth, because parents teach their kids morality, which would prevent the Nazis from doing what they wanted to do. The Nazis wanted to imprint their own ideas in the minds of the Nazi youth and Marilyn Manson does the same thing. Manson tries to foster a cult mentality among his fans, just like the Nazis did. He has not had the success that the Nazis had, which must be a great disapointment for him.
Comment by Tristan — June 3, 2008 @ 5:15 am |
Great story, lots of good insights and theories, although many inaccurate.
I especially liked the comment by Tristan that people should make a satire of Manson’s new religion. I think he would actually appreciate that, if anyone could do it a millionth as creatively, passionately and as in-depth as he has done with Christianity. I defy anyone to do this, but it will not happen. Satire is Manson’s arena, and this is the main reason that people have such respect for him. He’s a superstar defending his ground, but don’t forget, he was a kid driven by defiance of authority. He did this so well, in such a captivating way, like a great storyteller, that he rose to the top, past every teenager who ever rebelled against anything.
Manson is worthy of respect, not ridicule (no more than Stephen King or Nick Út, the famous photographer of the Vietnam War who introduced us first-hand to war as hell). He simply takes what’s there, what we have created, what we live, and shows it to us in a way that is outside of our “bubble,” or comfort zone. We get so used to seeing things the way we want to see them, that we don’t even realize what we’re looking at is something completely different. This is a necessary function of the human condition that allows and encourages us to adapt to any change. Manson is a mirror that shows us our own ugliness and beauty. Why is this important? It’s a satire in itself, really. When we look at Manson, we see hate and evil. Actually, we’re seeing ourselves and our own hate. And we hate what we’re looking at (in ourselves). This is why we hate Marilyn Manson. Like Christ (bear with me), he is the scapegoat for our hatred of the truth about ourselves and our perpetual sins.
Manson’s music is full of little lessons about ourselves and about being human, not about comparing ourselves to a perfect, plastic image that we can never become, but WE CLAIM TO BE. His performances are full of complex symbolic imagery and concepts, but his messages are very simple. They are probably more (brutally) honest than any religion, and if you realize these truths and the importance of being conscious of man’s inherent evils, you can actually learn some of life’s most important lessons. Only a fool closes his ears and eyes to anything in this life, but our biggest downfall is that we don’t want to listen to what we don’t want to hear. Talk about bias.
Comment by Mike — June 3, 2008 @ 7:25 am |
Here Mike, take a look at this photo of Asa Coon, 14 year-old kid that said M.M. was his “god”.
Asa Coon Death Photo
That and many others like him (shooters and victims) is the reflection of Marilyn Manson’s high-minded “satire”, as you like to describe it. Whether Marilyn Manson is just being satrical or not, in his own warped mind, many of his unworldly fans take him seriously, when he tells them he is a “god” and some of them are disturbed enough to act on the satanic and nazi garbage Manson and other bands put out.
Comment by Tristan — June 3, 2008 @ 9:10 am |
Man.. I feel sorry for that Asa kid. What was his background like the complete story? These type of things make me want to say “We should censor and block people from listening to certain music at this age.” But at the same time anyone at ANY age can take a song and twist it up so badly and believe that what they’re doing is right and its Manson’s orders to be carried out..
But the other side of me is saying censorship is wrong and we should allow free speech. Its the mentally screwed up that end up doing the worst and ruining it for everyone. End up hurting themselves and those around them.
Whatever happens will happen.. Damnit.
Comment by Hydra — June 3, 2008 @ 5:11 pm |
He was an angry kid from a screwed up family going to a mostly black school where he got into a lot of trouble and where people picked on him. M.M. just poured gasoline on the fire.
You can google and find the more.
USA Today artical on Asa Coon
and here is a video about it.
Asa Coon School Shooting Video
I don’t believe in censorship either. But in order to avoid censorship, at some point people (the fans) have to be willing to think about what the entertainer is doing and to let him know that what he is doing is not acceptable.
Comment by Tristan — June 3, 2008 @ 6:19 pm |
why doesn’t anybody pooint their fingers at people like fx Johnny Cash?
he sings song about drugs, alkocohol and killing.
He even sings : “I shot a man in Reno, just to see him die”.
We don’t blame him or others because he doesn’t stand out from the rest of us. Us humans are a wicked animal. We are afraid of the unusual. We terrorize the ones who are diferent.
Comment by Majken — June 4, 2008 @ 12:29 pm |
Majken, it’s probably because Johnny Cash’s fans didn’t chop up nuns or mass massacre shool children, as far as I know. Johnny Cash was a drug addict. His songs had melancholy in them, when we sang things like that. On the other hand Manson is unapolgetic and sounds like he is longing for a satanic apocalypse and/or a massive school shooting. Johnny Cash also reformed himself and expressed regret and Manson seems utterly incapable of even showing the most basic human sympathy for others.
Comment by Tristan — June 4, 2008 @ 1:13 pm |
MArilyn Manson mit Johnny Cash zu vergleichen ist schon hart^^.
Comment by Basti — June 7, 2008 @ 4:00 pm |
Es gibt aber doch ein paar Ähnlichkeiten, die Lieblings-Farbe von Cash war Schwarz. Man hat ihn daher „The Man in Black“ genannt. Er hat auch seine Verbindungen zu Deutschland. Ein paar seiner ersten Lieder waren in Deutschland aufgenommen, als er in der Air Force war. Sehen wir mal hier wie er mit Marilyn Manson vergleicht:
Johnny Cash – Wer kennt den Weg
Johnny Cash – Wo ist zu Hause, Mama?
Johnny Cash – Viel zu spät
Cash singt von Bereuung eines vergeudetes Leben. Er feiert das nicht.
Comment by Tristan — June 7, 2008 @ 4:52 pm |
Mansons neue Freundin Even Rachel Wood hat ein neues Tattoo.
Und rate mal was für eins… eine Siegrune
Comment by Basti — June 16, 2008 @ 4:40 am |
Manson is the shit that you created. He is everything that you would rather not see. You cringe because he is forcing you to see this, forcing you to view humanity’s most horrible moments. It’s like coming to terms with your shadow, in a Freudian sense. Reacting in this way is exactly what he wants, it fuels him. He is a shock rocker, and without this reaction, what point would there be in making this music? As for all this satanic bullshit, have you really studied the religion? If you could even call it a religion? It was made by a bored man in much the same way, to shock people. It is more similar to the old testament than anything else. An eye for and eye rather than just turn the other cheek. I for one would love to see an inverted pentagram or even a Eight-Spoked Dharma Wheel burned into a hillside, rather than all these crosses and ‘Jesus is Lord’ bullshit. I’ve never seen any other religion plastered on billboards, preached in commercials, or used to win elections. It’s about time some alternative view was thrown in your face. People are still killed for not being Christian or defying Christian ways. There is not as much tolerance for alternate religion as you would like to believe. There should be an article linked to this one showing the atrocities of the Christian religion (and all religions for that matter), all these horrible things done in the name of God. In the end, Manson is a challenge to everything we try to hide. He is coming to terms with what we hate and fear and accepting it as part of ourselves. We all should accept this, for that is the next step to enlightenment.
Comment by M — June 30, 2008 @ 10:58 am |
Hey, I’m just trying to explain what he is doing. Haven’t been cringing lately. Manson isn’t forcing me to look at anything. I consider it rather a hobby interest to look at what these paragons of perversity are doing. Would think you demon worshippers would appreciate the publicity. In any case I refuse to take the blame for creating Marilyn Manson. He’s going to have to own up to that for himself.
Comment by Tristan — June 30, 2008 @ 12:34 pm |
your blog is so cool but so stupid…
Comment by Luis — July 1, 2008 @ 9:36 am |
@Luis, just trying to put a few things together in a context that more casual fans may not encounter on their own and raise people’s awareness a little about the satanic and Nazi allusions in this type of music. People can take it or leave it as they like.
Comment by Tristan — July 1, 2008 @ 10:03 am |
http://www.razyboard.com/system/morethread-klage-von-wgacy-gegen-manson-mansonworld-57050-4713816-120.html
Im vorletzten Post ist das Bild zu sehen.
Beachtenswert findem ich dass das Tattoo sogar von Manson Fans kritisiert wird. Zitat: “Pervers ist dazu das Tattoo mit dem Stilisierten Sigrune, auch wenn es von der Antichrist Super Star CD kommt.”
Comment by Basti — July 2, 2008 @ 3:15 pm |
Thanks Basti, will write in English since I am in a hurry. The six-pointed star is also a satanic symbol here and not used as a normal Star of David. The Freemasons used it as a mystical symbol and apparently so did the Knights Templar, the leaders of whom were executed as supposed demonwor shippers by the King of France. It represents the Seal of Soloman, I believe, to Freemasons. The satanists apparently co-opted the symbol from the Freemasons. The Freemason have some secret meaning for it and the satanists probably also have their own meaning for it. I would assume it is some kind of symbol of the apocalypse. If more Germans noticed and understood the symbolism, they would probably get a lot more criticism.
Comment by Tristan — July 2, 2008 @ 3:30 pm |
Kannst du damit was anfangen?
http://www.mansonusa.com/interviews/?by=era&view=tgaog/mwg2003dagobert
Comment by Basti — July 20, 2008 @ 2:54 pm |
Bin nicht sicher. Es zeigt mindestens, wie absurd die Unterhaltung ist, wenn drei Kuckucke der Weltklasse zusammenkommen. Danke.
Comment by Tristan — July 20, 2008 @ 3:20 pm |
Habe einen Link dafuer gemacht.
Comment by Tristan — July 22, 2008 @ 1:07 pm |
Das ist übrigens der, der Manson auf 20 Millionen Dollar verklagt hat.
Interressant wie ich finde, schließlich hat Gacy gesagt das Manson sein bester Freund in der Band war.
Scheinbar sind sie auch nicht so verschieden wenn man sich seine Interviews ansieht und dann die von Manson. Eher ist Gacy sogar noch ein bisschen klüger.
Comment by Basti — July 25, 2008 @ 3:01 pm |
It’s unbelievable how some people would do anything to get a little bit of attention, even to the point to degrade themselves. This poor guy not only looks mentally sick but physically. God help him. Sorry not really much to comment about this lunatic.
Comment by Erik — August 5, 2008 @ 3:04 am |
If I listen to Mariah Carey before I go out and perform mass murder, does that mean her music influenced me to do it?
You go on and on and on about all the horrible things that Charles Manson did, all of his ideologies and beliefs, but I think you’re forgetting that Marilyn Manson is in no way affiliated or related to Charles Manson at all. A lot of people have studied Charles Manson and his life, there have been many documentaries about him and The Manson Family, but just because someone shows an interest in this cult leader/serial killer does not mean that they aspire to be like them and follow their beliefs. I find it interesting that you make no mention of the FIRST half of Manson’s name, Marilyn, taken from the notorious sex idol Marilyn Monroe. Was she a Satanist Nazi? No. She was a performer. An actor. She put on a show whenever she went out in public, which is exactly what Manson does.
Music influences who we are and what we do TO AN EXTENT. It does not cause us to mass murder. I challenge you to show me a single scientifically proven case of something as trivial as MUSIC that has actually caused a sane person to commit murder.
Elizabeth
Comment by Elizabeth — August 6, 2008 @ 12:08 pm |
Elizabeth, when it happens repeatedly, as it has with some of these bands you may well be able to say this type of mass murder was influenced by the artist. It would be of a jury to decide. In a criminal court something like a scientific proof “beyond a reasonable doubt” may be required, but in a civil court the standard of judgement is much easier, a “proponderance of the evidence”. That is, it is more likely than not. The most famous example of this type of thing would be the case where Nazi Leader, Tom Metzger, was convicted of a murder conspiracy in a civil lawsuit for saying something to some associates of that was not much different than the suggestions that MM makes to his fans. It is just suggested here that the same technique may be used against MM and his business associates to shut them down.
It may not have to be a direct “cause” for MM and associates to be held civilly responsible for a mass murder, but indirectly inciting them to commit murder, like Metzger did. That is a little different. MM does incite his fans to violence, in my opinion. Metzger also did not “cause” his associates to commit murder, he just suggested it. It was found by a jury that he had some responsibility and they seized all of his savings and his house. MM and associates (or other similar bands) would be a much fatter target for some enterprising law firm. Whereas Metzger was sued for hundreds of thousands, MM and associates (or other bands) could in theory be sued for 10’s or 100’s of millions.
The high priest of the Church of Satan, of which MM was made a minister, said that he had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. Some satanists credited her with a significant satanic influence on society, saying that she started the sexual revolution. That is probably where MM got the association with Marilyn Monroe, from Anton LaVey. Also, MM is uniting opposites in his name, which is probably an allusion to the principle of the satanic Process Church of the Final Judgement, whose theory was to unite opposites (good and evil, Satan and Jesus)
Comment by Tristan — August 6, 2008 @ 10:41 pm |
M.M is such a shit himself… he is very disgusting and horrible;
Comment by nefertiti — August 18, 2008 @ 9:19 am |
Sorry, but Hitler was no Christian. He gave Christianity some lip service in Mein Kampf, before he was elected and when he still needed the votes of some Christians. After he had absolute power and had not need to lie, he compared Christianity to the “Pox” (Black Death) and said that he had rejected Christianity as a young boy. You can read that in the book, “Hitler’s Table Talk”.
The SS also had a Pagan Religion, which the Nazis probably would have made the state religion, if they had had time. Satanists often admire Hitler for his Satanic character and as a prophet of the Apocalypse.
If you don’t bother to read the site, I certainly won’t bother to post your message.
Comment by Tristan — August 23, 2008 @ 3:01 pm |
Hello,
I would like to start off with saying that I enjoy reading your site. And you sure did do a good job on all the research. But there are just a few little things, especially regarding Satanism, that I disagree with in your artical.
Sieg rune
The symbol LaVey uses, the one with the inverted pentagram (not a hexagram, a hexagram has 6 points) and the sieg rune, is not used by Satanists in general, it was his personal symbol. If he would want to use it in the same way to nazis used it, but in the context of Satanism. Would he not prefer to use it as a symbol for all newbies to the Satanic religion?
The sieg rune IS used throughout Satanism in other situations, as a symbol of strength, because that’s what it is. It would be a waste to stop using it, just because the nazis used it.
Vampirism and Satanism
Vampirism is criticized in Satanism, Satanists should rid themselves of social vampires, according to the Satanic Bible. Actual vampirism (the drinking of blood), is unsanitary and dangerous, Satanists don’t harm themselves. (for self-preservation is the highest law.)
The picture where Manson looks like a vampire according to you, seems like a very different thing to me… the blood seems to be coming from his nose. It seems more like a depiction of his cocaine abuse then vampirism.
Black, white and red
You used this as a argument in the page about Rammstein as well. These colours may have been used by the nazis, but they are also used by many companies, because they work. Most humans perceive these colours as beautiful and powerful. Thus making them useful if you want to influence a large crowd.
Goat’s head
The goat’s head symbol within a pentagram (more commonly revered to as the Baphomet) has nothing to do with demons. It is just the symbol of the Church of Satan, and modern Satanism in general. It comes from the god Baphomet, who was supposably worshipped by the Knights Templar.
Boyd Rice, fascist
Boyd Rice agrees that he is fascist, but he does not see him self as neo-nazi or racist. In a interview with Bob Larsen, where he says he is fascist, he imminently after, explains how he perceives fascism:
RICE:I’m a Satanist, a Social Darwinist, and a whole lot of other things.
LARSON: You’re an occult fascist.
RICE: Yes.
LARSON: You are…a Satanic neo-Nazi.
RICE: No, not precisely, we don’t use “fascist” in terms of it being, uh, political. It’s more to represent it being the polar opposite of democracy. We see democracy, basically, as being the twin of judeo-christian values and we see that they’ve both reached this point of critical mass and they’re both falling apart. It’s time to bring back a more bestial set of values.
Manson, on stage rituals
Yes, you are correct about Manson performing rituals on stage. But I disagree that the purpose of Satanic Rituals would ever be the destruction of a group of people, be it Christians or anyone else. Because not everyone in that entire group is going to be a deserving victim. And even if Satanism only symbolically destroys it’s opponents in ritual, they must be deserving non-the-less.
Other then that, really great article. Even though I am a fan of both Boyd’s and Manson’s music, and I’m a Satanist with slightly social-Darwinistic ideas. This is good information, some of it I did not know, and I think it’s great that you took the effort of writing it.
Hope to read more from you in the future!
With kind regards,
Zarra
Comment by Zarra Wolf — August 29, 2008 @ 11:43 am |
nazi is far better than Israel !!!!
A place called israel is a root of every chaos in evry place in a world.
did u ever think, why a terorism movement grows in nowadays? it’s because Israel starts a bestiality, massacre, take over in palestine.
I agree with hitler to start a final solution, that’s auschwitz
Comment by ronnie — September 5, 2008 @ 3:29 am |
Satire: writing that ridicules or criticizes individuals, ideas, or institutions, social conventions, or other works of art or literature.
Irony: A statement that, when taken in context, may actually mean the opposite of what is written literally; the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention; The quality or state of an event being both coincidental and contradictory in a humorous or poignant and extremely …
You misunderstand. I hope one day you’ll see it in it’s right light.
You’re a hate-mongerer, and you’ll burn in your own fires because of that.
Comment by Lyndsay — September 24, 2008 @ 3:34 am |
I’m the hate monger? Hahahahaha. Perfect irony.
Comment by Tristan — September 24, 2008 @ 5:30 am |
@Crawler23. Ob Ihr an Satanismus glaubt oder nicht ist mir ganz egal. Das Wichtige ist, dass einige manische und unstabile Leute die Musik dieser Genre des Todes, Satanismus und Nazismus ernst nehmen und dabei begeistert werden, Massenmord zu verüben. Ich will das nur klar demonstrieren und die Informationen so weit wie möglich verteilen. Ich bezweifele sehr das ich Wumpscut oder Manson mit dieser Webseite helfen. Wenn ja, würde die Webseite dich gar nicht stören.
Comment by Tristan — September 27, 2008 @ 10:03 pm |
You know, it is so hilarious how very wrong you are about everything Brian Warner is about. Just in case you didn’t know, Brian Warner is Marilyn Manson’s real name.
Brain Warner isnt a Nazi. He is a self proclaimed satanist so why are you freeking out so much about shouting out misinformed, narowminded and unresearched accusations? What you have disgribed as satanism is NOT the true practice of satanism. Its either our-right lies or out of context. Either way, this is the biggest joke since the bible. Every single example you have given is either missinterpreted or just plain close-minded.
Brian Warner is a Post Modern artist. Its as simple as that. The whole entire point of what he does is to inspire a reaction either positive or negative from his audience. He WANTS to provoke a response. He inst trying to be a Nazi. He is against everything that Nazi’s stand for. He is pointing out with true irony and flare the hypocrisy of his nation, his society and his world. He is trying to show you conditioned sheep how wrong and corrupted the churches, the government and the culture is of this supposed ‘free’ nation of civil rights and acceptance is.
Do you know the origin of the Nazi symbol by chance? Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. An ancient symbol, it occurs mainly in the cultures that are in modern day India and the surrounding area, sometimes as a geometrical motif (as in the Roman Republic and Empire) and sometimes as a religious symbol. It was long widely used in major world religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. The swastika is therefore an ancient symbol of peace, well being and good fortune. However because of Hitlers decision to incorporate it as his own personal symbol for his attempt to commit mass genocide and basically take over the world, we westerners have a lot of negative connotations attached to the swastika. Manson chooses to incorporate this kind of symbolism into his own works to make references to the oppressive behavior of his own government and society and the main religion that runs everything.
This is just one example that i’ve said off the top of my head without much thought. I could pick apart this entire site.
And you know what the saddest part of all of this is? You wont listen to me at all, you will probably wright me off as a miss-lead youth who doesnt know what they are talking about. You probably have read all this and decided that i’m a satanist, or a neo-nazi, or some other slander because you dont want to hear anything else other then your own voice and those agreeing with you.
Well i’m the one who pitties you. Because you will never see beyond your own hate, and racist bigotry. Let me guess? You think all gays should rot in hell? And that they have no rights etc? I wouldn’t be surprised if you also thought all women’s only ambition in life is to get married make babies.
In conclusion, good luck you fail at life.
Comment by Annonimus — September 29, 2008 @ 6:40 am |
@Annonimus – I’m always amazed and amused that Manson’s fans excuse him by saying he is just trying to “provoke” and “get attention”, then they get sooo upset if someone actually pays attention to what he is doing. 😉
Comment by Tristan — September 29, 2008 @ 7:28 am |
MANSON IS NOT GOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND ALL THOSE OTHER BANDS ARE JUST POSERS,
YOU JEWISH CUNT.
Comment by gonzo — September 30, 2008 @ 4:56 pm |
i like lots of bands…but M.M and his fucking stuff is desgusting and horrible!he doesnt even look like a human…..
Comment by Gotenks — October 5, 2008 @ 2:31 am |
How can anyone who incites hate and violence be considered brilliant and misunderstood?
Comment by Matt — October 12, 2008 @ 5:23 pm |
Lots of people that have incited hate and violence have had blind followers that think they are brilliant and misunderstood.
Comment by Tristan — October 12, 2008 @ 7:20 pm |
I was one of the first people to be a Marilyn Manson fan when they got signed to nothing records in the late nineties. They do use the Satanism thing as a gimmick. I do believe Manson believes that he is making a trade with Daemonic spirits so that he can prosper in this life. The killings and things that happen as a result of that are the fruits that are born of his deal with Daemonic spirits. Most Anti-Christs are inwardly very lame but the daemons that control them ensure that they make the right moves to be successful in this life. In the next life Marilyn Manson will probably be a homely, shy, deaf girl who writes bad poetry. His individual soul would not be as powerful were it not for his deal with daemons. His whole shtick preys on the awkward frustration of puberty.
Comment by Katie — October 15, 2008 @ 3:04 am |
hi my name is steve and i think its bullshit how everyone targets manson for his wrong doings or whatever you want to call it, he is not the only satanist or nazi or anything you want to call him. there are many other bands alone that have the same attributes as he but no one ever seems to give them hell over it. for instance, the drummer of tool also calls upon satanic daemons to help him with his gift. the black metal bands, all of them repent against the church, there all satanic but manson takes the fall. but its ok cause i dont see myself killing anyone because i listen to it. my personal favorite band is marilyn manson just because he pushes the envelope, but i havent killed my parents, actually they’re the ones whom opened my eyes to it. his music isnt ugly or disgusting its art, his art, and if you cant oppericiate it then dont listen i dont like rap, so do i listen, no, oh and thats probably what you listen to although it says to do drugs, hit women and shoot others. in all i think your jealous of his genius. jealous of how he made it and you didnt. jealous of the fact he’s better than you in all aspects.
sincerely, steve
Comment by steve — October 15, 2008 @ 9:56 pm |
I too ask myself why would anyone see their race/nation and their beliefs as the best in the whole world and kill people who don’t agree with them. In my opinion killing for the things you believe may sound brave, and can change the minds of the children, but to be honest its nothing but crap. MM fans open your eyes damn it, RACISM = BAD , simple enough?
Comment by Cem — October 22, 2008 @ 10:31 am |
Thought-provoking article. As a fellow conspiracy researcher, I can appreciate your attention to the various hidden (sometimes “hidden in plain sight”) connections between things; the influence of Nazism and LaVeyan Satanism on Manson’s work is undeniable. There are some places where my research augments or contradicts some of your assertions; in the interest of helping you to expose Truth, I will provide a few corrections and expanded expositions:
1. The Swastika isn’t a Buddhist symbol, but a Hindu one. The early Ariosophists (Guido von List, the ONT, the Germanenorden, etc) indeed got the idea that it was Buddhist from Blavatsky, but she was wrong (as was often the case with her frankly shoddy “historical” and “anthropological” research). Blavatsky’s Theosophy in general was a sloppy and ill-comprehended syncretisation of many beliefs, which served more than anything as a great mish-mosh of esoterica from which other groups (the Golden Dawn, the Germanenorden, etc) picked out what they liked, and discarded the rest.
2. There are lots of flavors of Satanism; the kind practiced by the “official” Church of Satan, as outlined by LaVey in the Satanic Bible, is strictly atheistic. They do subscribe to some Nietzschean ideas, and a general “might-makes-right” outlook, philosophies which they indeed share with Nazism. Also, they do feature ritual “magic” as an optional aspect of their religion, having adapted many of their rituals directly from Catholicism (LaVey was a church organist before he founded the CoS), but they attribute any effect that magic has to pure, materialistic psychology. They are not supernaturalists, and indeed mock all supernatural and non-atheist belief-systems — including (and especially) theistic satanists, whom they detest. They could best be described as hyper-individualistic, openly-elitist (in the sense of meritocratic elitism), atheists.
Theistic satanists, such as the Temples of Satan and the Order of Nine Angles (two groups which each denounce the other, as well as LaVey’s Church, as “false satanists”), share many of the affectations of atheistic satanists, and some of the philosophies… but at the core, they have a very different belief-system. Far from Lavey’s atheistic, materialist-objectivist philosophy, theistic satanists believe that there is a supernatural being who they identify variously as Satan, Lucifer, Set, Typhon, etc, and that with his help, they are able to work sorcery.
(more to come…)
Comment by Lex — October 22, 2008 @ 10:22 pm |
Thank you for compiling and sharing this information. I can’t even watch all the clips – I’m so sickened and disgusted by M. Manson and what he does/says/stands for. I agree with a recent comment. I think M. Manson is largely being controlled by demonic forces. He’s traded his soul for fame/fortune. I wonder if he’ll be so bold in the afterlife – when he’s burning in hell for all eternity with his buddies Satan, Charlie, Hitler… probably won’t be much time for high-5’s down there. But far more important than any of those people is the young ones who are being led astray by them. Shame on the parents who aren’t paying enough attention, offering enough guidance… and loving those God has charged them with. THE ONLY ANSWER to this crime and hate and violence and ignorance is JESUS CHRIST.
Comment by Anne — October 24, 2008 @ 8:43 am |
Anne, to be honest I don’t think he is being controlled by demonic forces, I think it’s about his childhood. It depends on your education that you are going to be a Satanist Nazi or something better. His childhood made him this. But I’m not saying it’s all about that, there is always another chance, MM missed it.
Comment by Cem — October 24, 2008 @ 12:28 pm |
http://www.manson-valley.de/fotogalerie/manson/images/89-95/89-
Komisches T-Shirt….
Comment by Basti — October 26, 2008 @ 10:02 am |
Hallo Basti, die address ist nicht ganz da. Tristan
Comment by Tristan — October 28, 2008 @ 5:01 am |
Aber jetzt xD Ich hoffe jetzt geht es.
Comment by Basti — October 28, 2008 @ 5:36 am |
Basti, das scheint doch SS-Symbol zu sein. Es ist nicht ungesetzlich hier, so was zu tragen, aber sozial nicht annehmbar. Verbände von Motorradfahrer wie die Hell’s Angels haben traditional solche Symbolen seit dem Ende von ZWK getragen, um zu zeigen dass sie die Werten der Gesellschaft ablehnen und wie hart sie sind. Das heißt, niemand könnte sie zwingen es zu entfernen. In den 60en habe satanische Verbände von Motorradfahrer entwickelt. Der Massenmörder, Charlie Manson, waren mit ein paar von diesen Verbänden alliiert, wie Satan’s Slaves und The Straight Satans. Satanisten — wie Marilyn Manson — tragen diese Symbole ähnlicherweise, weil sie zeigen wollen, dass sie die moralische Ethik der Mainstream-Gesellschaft völlig ablehnen und auch weil sie die satanische Charakter von Hitler und den Nazis bewundern ob sie selbst antisemitisch sind oder nicht. Es scheint eine Menge von Satanisten und andere Gruppen von Okkultisten, wie Scientology, in Hollywood zu geben, die Entertainer und Politiker zu beeinflussen und zu rekrutieren versuchen. Der Zweck ist, glaube ich, die Gesellschaft am Ende zu destabilisieren. Ob sie so was praktisch machen kann, weiß ich nicht.
Guck mal diesen Clip an. Diesen Ort in Vorbergen der Rocky Mountains kann man vielleicht der Adlersnest der Führerschaft von Scientology heißen, wo sie hoffen die Apokalypse sicher überleben zu können. Sie haben eine Festung dort mit viel Vorräte und eine Landebahn.
Der Gründer von Scientolgy, L. Ron Hubbard – der Selbst Satanist war – soll nicht tot sein aber haltet im Moment in einer anderen Galaxie auf und soll wie Kaiser Barbarossa irgendwann in Zukunft zurückkommen um die Welt endlich zwanghaft wenn notwendig zu Scientology zu bekehren. Der Zweck der Kreisen ist, glaube ich, um Hubbard ein Signal zu schicken, wenn er vom Weltall siegreich zurückkommt. //Tristan
Comment by Tristan — October 29, 2008 @ 6:48 am |
the biggest load of bollox i’ve ever heard.
well what about rap videos? “niggas with guns”, “niggaz with attitude”.
songs and videos filled with graphic and verbal violence.
most of the little black bitches that are rappers are “ex” drug dealers, murderers, thieves or just plain criminals!
so if you little pissy christians want something to rant about then rant about those fucking wogs.
p.s. beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
(that includes the music and artistic creations of Brian Warner
Comment by patrick — November 8, 2008 @ 10:31 am |
Brian Warner was a punk kid who was bullied and could never be one of the kids that bullied him. He made the fortunate turn to music that which he has a knack for displaying ridiculous ideas that even more ridiculous people eat it up and follow him.
To me, hes a cartoon figure, i dont take him serious no matter how hard he tries to ‘make’ me feel hes serious, to me he is and will always be a joke.
I think that its sad for some little moron to pretend to be somebody, then gets recognized for his fakeness and then lives out the rest of his day as the very thing he created. Im
Brian, your a punk! Your world is so small and it scares people, but that is because they are with out the truth. Get behind me you filthy liar of a man, I think you are nothing but a fool! I laugh at you!
I laugh at you and your music!
The people that ‘worship and follow’ you are clowns and slaves that cant think for themselves.
Brian is a clown, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA AH
Comment by MICHAEL — November 12, 2008 @ 5:21 pm |
YOU WANNA READ THIS.. (from an ex follower of satan)
I am a drummer and when I was a teenager I was deeply involved in punk rock and hardcore music, and I confess that nothing led me more to hurt people and do stupid things than the influence of the music and bands I used to listen to.
One day, (after a long history of being a problematic teen and being already expelled from 2 schools im Sao Paulo, Brazil) I had just fought with everybody at home, cursed my parents and sisters, I was determined to kill myself, I was going to end it all, that was the solution that came into my head right at that moment, but in the last minute I decided to talk to maybe God I thought, and I said “God, if you exist or if you are there somewhere, help me because I can’t”… and at that exactly moment I was comforted by something I did not know what but I was, I could not put and end to my life.
In that same week I met a person that started talking to me about bible and stuff and after reading it I realized that I was not the one reading the book but the book was reading my life to me and I could see the path of destruction I had been led to take, so I started to search the book for answers and there he was… SATAN! (aka Lucifer), GOD’S NUMBER ONE ENEMY, the fallen angel with his crew of demons that had been working around my life bouncing me like a POPPET trying to get as many people hurt as possible USING MY LIFE and after that, discard me like a dirty diaper. This is exactly what HE DOES to people that do not know the truth today and choose to follow his will. The author here on this page quoted that according to Crowley himself, the “Liber AL vel Legis” or “Book of the Law” was channeled to him by a demon!
So who is behind all this?
It is interesting to see (although very sad) how satan operates through peoples lives the very same way he did on bible times and all times, trying to destroy not only Christ followers but his own followers. The very reason why this man Brian aka marylin manson do what he does it is because he has chosen to express the very will of his master satan.
Nothing is more clear than the eternal desire of satan to fight God (and the people who at least try to follow him, and I am talking about bible based Christians) because of the price he is paying for his betrayal. The saddest part is that all this people, like Brian, have no ideia that satan could not care less about them losing their lives for him, because of his HATE AND ENVY towards the HUMAN RACE. God took so much pride on creating us making us His own image that to save every one from Hell, sent JESUS CHRIST to this planet to DIE AND PAY with BLOOD so ANYONE that believed on Him and accepted Him as their saviour would NOT GO TO HELL.
Satan was never given this oportunity, to be saved, so he HATES the entire human race, and just to think that after we die we would be his priest, or something in hell is LUDACRIS, HE HATES YOU, SATAN HATES YOU!!!
The Bible is very clear about him being a master mind controller, and this is exactly what people like aleister crowley, hitler, charles manson and many others emphazised the most in masterizing, mind control.
It is so clear to see who is behind everything!
It gets even more clear to see if you start putting everything that is happening in our world today in prospect to what the end of times would look like according to the book of revelation!
Friend, if you feel you are going through the same thing I went or similar, I insist that you ask God to help you… I am living proof that He can help you no matter what is happening or has happened on your life.
Anyone is better off with God than with satan, God did to my life what Satan never could and never would, HE SAVED MY SOUL and HE GAVE ME PEACE…
I hope for your best, and thank you for taking the time to read all this….
Comment by Raphael — November 19, 2008 @ 2:57 pm |
this this is wrong god have mercy no never mind i hope you will be damnd for ever you bitch when i learn were you liv manson mark my words i will kill you for god i will slit your throt
Comment by daylon — February 24, 2009 @ 10:03 pm |
Wow! What an interesting battle we have here. I myself am a christian and NO fan of MM. I think he went thru something horrific as a child and is acting out upon it all. I pray for him and even more for ALL of his fans. They all are deserving and worthy of LOVE! They just haven’t been given that love by anyone. Which should really be considered a sin by the nongivers! Anyways, Yes, I wish MM would disappear and all his fans would become loving children of god. I know it sounds so cliche and I don’t mean for it to. For goodness sake, I’m NO angel. Yes, i’ve accepted Jesus as my saviour and am naturally a peacemaker at heart. But i’ve sinned with the best of them, i’ve done drugs, been a stripper, even tried to sell my own soul to satan @ the age of 14(thank GOD, he didn’t or couldn’t take it!)So, I am no holy roller. Just a Jesus believing mom to a 10 year old girl. All I know is I hope she NEVER listens to MM or any future musicians like him. May God have mercy on his soul. Love to all of you, it’s never too late to call on JC!
Comment by strrgrl — March 30, 2009 @ 5:00 pm |
First of all, thank you for this very comprehensive account… I have completed my BA thesis on the mutual relationship of Horror Industry ANDreal life and yes, I did include Marylin Mason as an actor in this relationship, which is no longer a one-sided relationship, but a reciprocally enriching body with two lines feeding each other…
He does incite young people… He does give messages of gore and killing and Nazism and Racism altogether… just like many other metal&hardcore groups… However, communication and motivation are two-sided operations and one message cannot be realized, if the receiver fails to receive it… I have been listening to Manson, Korn, Slipknot and many hate-talking groups – yes, they do speak a language of hatred – but, I have never truly let this music get into my soul and my heart and my actions, I have never let them breed hate in my own entity and I have never even started to build a body of anger or resentment in my entity against the society or a certain race… These are just songs and songs are just words…
Still, I agree with you on the fact that these words are rather influential on young people with the rapidly developing technology in the last decade – they are literally everywhere and so easily accessible that even a 10-year-old can now download their lyrics… Plus, the Internet has generated a greater sense of skepticism against all conventional means of hope the mankind used to have – religion, social relationships, trust, parents, social order; the list can go on forever… (I myself have only managed to keep my ties strong with my social environment and nothing else – I’m a true agnostic)
These are conflicting statements, I do concur. Yet, these are the facts we are faced with today as the world’s next generation… I believe that the problem lies in the lack of readiness of parents and the educational systems to such a rapid increase in communication… A 30-year-old parent cannot deal with her 10-year-old son because of the combined effect of the generation and information gap… The solution cannot (I deliberately did not use “does not”) lie in prohibiting the information flow towards people or in censorship, not only because it is impossible to do, but also because it will then become the starting point of many obstacles to a person’s right to information and freedom of expression… The solution lies in the parents’ approach and care and ability to listen to their children (in the full meaning of the verb)…
When I was a child, I learned that harming any living is not right… not because it was forbidden, but because every person has a right to life and to happiness and to physical and emotional completeness… If traditional parenting continues to scare and impede the youth with lessons of faiths that can never be questioned, of social orders that can never really be understood (if you tell me killing is not right, then I will ask, “What about the wars?” and believe me, nobody on the whole wide world can justify the wars at the moment) and of conventional values which can never really support individuality…
So please, give the youth a concrete value in this chaotic life to hold on to, which can be questioned, which one can reason with and which can never fail the human individuality… I’m an idealistic utopia dweller, but I think that value lies in empathy, in knowing from oneself that harming a person is not right, just because it is not right…
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my own feelings and opinions… I would also like to thank the comment-owners, because they were also quite enlightening for me…
Comment by cruelanais — April 11, 2009 @ 5:34 pm |
Thanks, that is the most considered comment that I have received. I have been busy with other things and have not kept this site up as I would like. Also, certain people have been busy trying to get the photos taken down. I agree with you that it is a two-way message. It is also, however, largely subconcious to many of the fans, although I believe that the groups understand what they are doing. Many of the fans do not have anywhere near the exprience or maturity needed to recognize and understand the associations in the content. So, what I am trying to do is to point out and make this content conscious to the fans and others, not censor it. You could probably do a Ph.D. thesis on the psychology of this phenomenon.
Part of a “solution” would be to just get people to understand what this is. Values are going to be defined the way the always have been, by religion. There has been a ying/yang struggle between mainstream and occult religion for several thousand years. It seems arrogant of people to think that they have transcended this. All that they have done is surrender their values to those who have no values.
Comment by Tristan — April 12, 2009 @ 10:30 am |